Why don't you have a Maintenance Manual for your airplane-

[cliffy]

If you own a Mooney, and you have questions about its maintenance, why don't you own the

correct Maintenance Manual and a copy of AC 43.13? There is no mystery to aircraft maintenance.

It's all written down somewhere. First stop consult the correct Maintenance Manual and if you don't

find your answer there, go to 43.13. 95% of all your questions will be answered. 

This is not to mean that the good folks on this board won't chime in and help it is just that I have always wondered why,

if someone is interested in the maintenance of their airplane, why they don't have these books? 

Just asking for general interest.

[RLCarter]

Add in the Parts manual. If the FAA walks in and you don't have the MM and 43-13 readily available your day could turn to crap in a hurry as they are required to have. 

[Yetti]

Because while it can tell you that there is a roll pin the handle that reclines the rear seat, it does not tell you how to remove it.  I almost wonder if they did not put the interior in and then put the exterior skin.

[Shadrach]

I do have a MM and an IPC.  I would have them for any plane that owned. However, mooneyspace is an invaluable tool for the "tribal knowledge" that the Mooney pubs do not have.

[carl]

where do you acquire such a manual?

[chrisk]

I do have a copy of the Maintenance manual and IPC.  They are useful, but some times the information is very obtuse.  For example.  The IPC tells me I have Mooney Part number 880018-501 for the strobe power supply in my plane and where to look.  It's not until I look that I can see it's a Hoskins 701295-3.  Then MoneySpace comes to the rescue, since Hoskins isn't in business any more.

[Oscar Avalle]

I do have a MM and an IPC.  I would have them for any plane that owned. However, mooneyspace is an invaluable tool for the "tribal knowledge" that the Mooney pubs do not have.

I agree Mooneyspace is a great tool and helps a lot at least to point you in the right direction.

[cliffy]

AC 43.13-1B  is available for download for free from the FAA  Be aware its large.

It can also be purchased in book form from A/C Spruce

Any Moomey MM and IPC can be purchased from any Mooney dealer or MSC

Mooney International lists the various ones on its website

[RLCarter]

The Maintenance Manual and 43-13 both assume you are an A&P or IA, almost all MM be it for a plane, car, boat, motorcycle...etc. are written more as reference or a guide rather than a Step by Step, manuals would be several thousand pages if they went into detail about everything, this includes parts manuals as well. When going into uncharted waters I read the Maintenance Manual and any other material (43-13, Service Bulletins, AD's, Service Instructions, etc..) on what I am about to tackle, plus referencing the Parts Manual and then jotting down any torque values or notes I might need. Now I have a better knowledge of what I'm about to do, and if I have any questions I can give a better description to my A&P/IA. 

[RobertGary1]

Also the Lycoming parts manual and at least operators manual (has procedures for on aircraft maintenance, torque settings etc). 

 

-Robert

[carusoam]

Machine engineers and tech writers have been writing these manuals for years...

1) POH - operators/owners manual

2) Parts Manual.

3) Maintenance Manual.

These are available for every car in America as well.

The Internet and EBay are a magical resource as is the OEM.

The nice thing about the manuals is they are complete.  Every page has the important details.  There isn't anything left out.  You have it all.  Well 99% anyway...

Unfortunately they don't update themselves.

Do you guys buy the Automotive Maint.  Manuals too?

Make sure the manuals you buy are proper for the year and machine you have...

This list comes from my personal automotive experience.  I am not a mechanic, just a PP.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Yetti]

car wise the internet forums are almost better than a manual.  So when the power steering cooler starts leaking in a Ford truck, do you replace the $200.00 integrated unit that also has the A/C cooler?  Or do you get the idea to buy a $40.00 external one from amazon and hang it in front of the old one? Which of course means you don't have to crack open the A/C.

  

[RobertGary1]

I use AllData for all my cars. It's a FSM that is always up to date. But much like the Mooney manual it assumes a certain level of knowledge. It's not going to explain how to change oil. 

-Robert

[cliffy]

There are lots of very knowledgeable people on this forum as is evidenced by many of the threads herein..

There are A&Ps here that can bury me with some of the good work and knowledge they have shown here. But as is evident by some of the postings, basic airplane and maintenance knowledge is sometimes lacking.    

I am only postulating in an effort to show those who may not know how or where to find the information a route to more answers for their questions when and if they come up in the future. It is not meant to disparage anyone. If they are asking now they will have questions in the future and MAY want to have the references available to research if they are that interested. Some folks have no idea where this info is archived and how to get ahold of it.  

Lastly, in decades of working on airplanes I've had numerous instances of owners (not A&P rated) working on their own airplane and doing what they think is reasonable but in fact is so in violation of regs, MMs, good sense and safety that they put themselves at risk both legally and life threatening.  I am trying to help those folks learn the correct and safe way of doing things on airplanes so they don't get into trouble. . 

 

[Mooneymite]

Ah...just go on Youtube.  I'm sure there will be someone who barely speaks English explaining how to set up flight control travel and landing gear rigging.

Who needs a stinkin' manual?

 

[Yetti]

For the same reason there are IT help desks.  It is easy to ask someone that it is to read the manual.   Hence the phrase RTFM.

[philipneeper]

Essco makes the Mooney Manual. Not to steep. They have them for most aircraft and our engines.

Edited October 27, 2015 by philipneeper

[philipneeper]

http://www.esscoaircraft.com/c-5202-mooney-maintenance-parts-manuals.aspx

[Shadrach]

I've relearned a valuable lesson recently. Just because one finds an aircraft put together one way, does no mean the last person who reassembled it did so correctly (regardless of their credentials). I should have been more vigilant and "RTFM" when tighting/replacing fasteners that did not have tinnerman nuts attached, the gear doors have been a problem for as long as I've known the plane. When I pulled the wing root fairings, there were no tinnermans on the rear most #4 sheet metal screws (the only ones that could have tinnermans replaced from the outside of the plane). Clearence (as usual) was most informative without being judgmental, so I will see that those screws get tinnermans. However, a quick look at the IPC reveals that Mooney calls for more screws than nuts (see attachments). How should one know what gets nuts and what doesn't? Perhaps the conventional thinking is that all should. Perhaps there are areas where it's not possible.  Either way, this is where tribal knowledge comes into play. The whole reason I started working on our plane with an IA was the discovery that many professionals were not performing as professionally as they claimed (and it was more than one). I continue to work through almost all MX (time permitting) because I want to learn and because I want to have the best chance of knowing the condition of our machine. I am sure there are planes that are maintained to a higher standard than mine. Each owner has to decide how involved they want to be with in the boundries of the regs. 

No need to name names, but can you give some examples of things that you've seen discussed here that you think are dangerous?

 

 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Shadrach

[cliffy]

 

Shadrach - you are absolutely correct in that just because one is licensed does not mean one has the skills to do the job properly. I see it too many times. Likewise, an owner but not mechanically inclined, who works on his own airplane without the proper references and guidance is just as, if not more, dangerous than an A&P not willing to learn the correct way of doing things. A starting point and a legal requirement is to have the appropriate reference materials READILY AT HAND while doing work on airplanes.  

I just ran a short maintenance clinic at the last MooneyFlyer flyin at KPGA on owner performed maintenance and Preventive Maintenance. It was well attended and it was fun and enjoyable to show those owners what is entailed in doing things properly. I think I enjoyed helping them more than they enjoyed watching and doing. The first thing I told them was to get the proper MM and 43.13

I have personally seen in recent time, 

A Mooney owner working on his own landing gear because it wouldn't retract fully (3" short) and it was signed off for annual 3 weeks earlier. (many underlying issues with this particular Mooney)

A starter electric cable replaced by the owner with a car battery cable.

Nav Lites replaced with LED bulbs from Canada NOT legal (view angles, color and brightness, PMA, STC on and on)

An owner that was changing his main tire until I yelled at him to stop. He was loosening  one of the 3 wheel half bolts without deflating the tire. 

A 172 in the local shop that had a mag fall off (literally) 10 hrs after an annual.

A Mooney that had 1/2 inch play in the tail bushings a month after an annual. 

This is all in the last couple of years at one airport and not my almost 50 years of A&P experience. Me and another IA shake our heads every month at something that comes through the shop either owner work or other A&P work.

[Shadrach]

Cliffy,

It is everywhere. I have thrown good money at aweful MX. My plane came back from an annual at a large repair station with a 500rpm mag drop. I took it back and they told me they would make it right, but that it would take a full day. When I picked it up the mechanic that did the retime (it was simply mistimed by the last guy) said it was time consuming because he had to remove the upper motor mount bolts to put the engine on the "service position". I have had as many bad experiences as you've listed personally. I've been charged >$10,000 for annuals that accomplished little in the way of actual MX. I have found shoddy work that I believe was deliberately concealed and shoved out the door. I'm not perfect, nor is my IA, but if I screw something up, I'll admit it and see that it gets corrected, ASAP. I dont think that always happens in a multi mechanic shop environment.

[ryoder]

Shadrach I think that is called diffusion of responsibility.  When multiple people work on the airplane and nobody owns the entire repair assumptions that the other guy is responsible get made.  I have had shoddy automotive work done including tools left in the car, vacuum hoses left open, work not performed but charged, body panels cracked by improper jacking, simple items not found and more expensive repairs diagnosed and charged.  I have also seen shoddy work in hospitals and almost everywhere really.  Scary.

[Yetti]

"However, a quick look at the IPC reveals that Mooney calls for more screws than nuts (see attachments). How should one know what gets nuts and what doesn't? Perhaps the conventional thinking is that all should. "   I was thinking of you while screwing things back together.   Noticed that some of rear trim pieces had nuts back them up.    I think you have to have the interior out to get to the back side.

The flaps motor belly panel had a 4-5 wood screw threads where there should have been machine threads.... Sadly I just went back with the wood threads instead of properly replacing them.  Next year I will have a proper stock to replace with the correct ones.

 

[Hank]

I bought a bag of 100 of each (stainless) screw that I remove at annual, and replace anything that looks bad--if it's been cross-threaded, or if the screwdriver has buggered up the slot, etc. Prices are very reasonable when buying in box quantities (everything except the tinnerman nuts, they're just pricey). This also lets me carry some of everything in my on-board toolkit.

[gsengle]

I don't have a maintenance manual because my A&P does. I'm an expert on what I do so I can afford to pay him for what he does. I'm still a maintenance savvy owner. I bet most aircraft owners also don't own the maintenance manuals personally... Maybe I'm wrong. That said, I may look for copies now...

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