Block time or plane share?

[Shadrach]

Has anyone ever considered plane sharing with other qualified pilots?  I have seen deals done like this overseas, but not seen anyone offer the practical option in the states.  For instance, I need to be in San Francisco from 10/28-11/04 but need to make a day trip to San Diego on the 2nd or 3rd.  Landing at Ramona (KRMN) would be ideal and far faster via Mooney than taking the cattle car.  Has anyone ever done anything like this? Any west coasters interested in swapping time?     

[carusoam]

Probably need to check with your insurance to see what additional costs are for naming another pilot on your policy.  Probably not very bad when they are known Mooney pilots already.

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

There may be limits on how often you can add and remove pilots. They don't want that used for a rental situation. Insurance for rental is substantially higher. You'd have to keep the plane flying just to pay the insurance. 

-Robert

[Hank]

This sounds like what the Open Pilot clause is for. Before you borrowed my plane, though, I'd have to know and trust you, then go to ride together. Even if you have the same model. There's just so much variation in installed equipment . . .

I helped a friend ferry his F to the avionics shop and back, then when he was trying to sell it his new ride needed work so I followed him in his F and brought him back. It was a little different from my C, mostly in the radio stack, but I did find out that it lands better with Landing Flaps than with Takeoff, where my C doesn't care, and that his flaps could not be set in between. Two familiarization rides then we were heading out playing fetch.

No one else at our field met the Open Pilot requirements for time in Make & Model. But I was still surprised that he put me left seat the first time I ever got in his plane. As we were flying along, I asked him when his last right seat landing was. He said "What? In this plane? Never." A trusting soul.

[N601RX]

I would not fly someone else's plane under their open pilot clause.  It protects them, not you.  My regular policy offers coverage under some circumstances of me flying a different plane.  I have a friend who left his plane with me while he was oversees for me to fly it.  My only stipulation was that he add me as a named pilot and additional insured. It took less than 1 day to be added.

[larryb]

There was a long thread over on Beachtalk about this. 

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=101363&hilit=Insurance

There was a guy who had an incident in a borrowed plane. Plane damaged, nobody hurt. He met the open pilot requirements, and was "named insured." But he was not "additional insured."  Insurance company fixed the plane, so the owner was whole. But then the insurance company came after the pilot for the bill. If you are not "additional insured" you are not necessarily covered. After reading that, I don't think I'd fly any other aircraft unless I had non-owned aircraft coverage. The original poster of that thread was the guy this happened to, so it's first-hand reporting.

Larry

[bonal]

If I had free time I'd be happy to fly a Mooney guy somewhere but letting someone borrow my airplane I can't even conceive of the thought. Same thing goes for my bike same thing goes for my...

[ryoder]

There was a long thread over on Beachtalk about this. 

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=101363&hilit=Insurance

There was a guy who had an incident in a borrowed plane. Plane damaged, nobody hurt. He met the open pilot requirements, and was "named insured." But he was not "additional insured."  Insurance company fixed the plane, so the owner was whole. But then the insurance company came after the pilot for the bill. If you are not "additional insured" you are not necessarily covered. After reading that, I don't think I'd fly any other aircraft unless I had non-owned aircraft coverage. The original poster of that thread was the guy this happened to, so it's first-hand reporting.

Larry

Thanks for the info. Makes sense.

[DonMuncy]

With all due respect larryb, I think you got some wrong information. If you are a "named insured", you are protected. I only practiced law in Texas, so there is a possibility some other state could do it differently, but I seriously doubt it.

[N601RX]

I think he may have used the wrong term.  I followed the thread linked above as it played out and the pilot was a "named pilot" not a "named insured". In one of his last post he said that he insurance company was comming after him for their losses.

[Conrad]

"In one of his last posts..!?" Have they found his body yet? What an awful way to go.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Conrad

[RobertGary1]

Most policies allow for subrogation against open pilots. This includes renters or just friends who fly under the open pilot warranty.  If I'm doing a transition with a pilot in his Mooney I ask to be named on the policy since even cfi's can be held liable for the named pilots mistakes. 

Also be aware that if the insurance company finds that your friend actually was not qualified (open pilot or FAA) than there is no payout at all. You take the lose. That's different from car insurance. 

-Robert

[ryoder]

Nice write up here.

http://www.aviationi.com/Article2N.htm

 

[RobertGary1]

One more case in addition to those listed in your link. When I did my initial CFI I wanted to get right seat time. So I had a friend sit in the left who was a pilot but not named. I called my broker and he had me draft a letter to the underwriter putting them on notice that I would be operating from the right seat. Had anything happened it would have avoided the need to prove that my friend was not operating the aircraft. 

-Robert

[Shadrach]

So here I sit at SFO. I have spent more time on parking, walking, TSA and waiting at the gate for a flight to LAX connecting to SAN than it would have taken to make the flight to Romona via Mooney. The flight has now been delayed an hour and I will likely miss my connection at LAX.  Not only was this $hit$how flight more expensive than the fuel cost of a Mooney trip, I get to pay $6hr in parking while I wait. There's a chance that my whole trip might be scrubbed. I feel really bad for the International passengers that  have connecting flights to Asia through LAX. At least it's a nice CAVU day...

Edited November 4, 2015 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

Trip scrubbed... AA fail.

[mike_elliott]

This sounds like what the Open Pilot clause is for. Before you borrowed my plane, though, I'd have to know and trust you, then go to ride together. Even if you have the same model. There's just so much variation in installed equipment . . .

I helped a friend ferry his F to the avionics shop and back, then when he was trying to sell it his new ride needed work so I followed him in his F and brought him back. It was a little different from my C, mostly in the radio stack, but I did find out that it lands better with Landing Flaps than with Takeoff, where my C doesn't care, and that his flaps could not be set in between. Two familiarization rides then we were heading out playing fetch.

No one else at our field met the Open Pilot requirements for time in Make & Model. But I was still surprised that he put me left seat the first time I ever got in his plane. As we were flying along, I asked him when his last right seat landing was. He said "What? In this plane? Never." A trusting soul.

The open pilot clause doesn't keep the insurance company from coming back on the pilot that meets the "open" and subrogating all of their losses. It does provide for coverage for the owner, just not the non named pilot. Keep this in mind when you jump into your friends plane to fly it. His stuff is covered, yours, not so much. 

 

[ryoder]

The open pilot clause doesn't keep the insurance company from coming back on the pilot that meets the "open" and subrogating all of their losses. It does provide for coverage for the owner, just not the non named pilot. Keep this in mind when you jump into your friends plane to fly it. His stuff is covered, yours, not so much. 

 

From the beech talk story, even named pilot doesn't protect the non owner and the non owner should have non owned aircraft insurance to cover him.  If the non owner owns his own plane and has his own insurance maybe that and being named would suffice as protection against surrogation.