New Mooney Ovation vs used Ovation

[manoflamancha]

I had chance to sit in a brand new 2015 Mooney Ovation and loved the brand new kid globe leather interior and avionics. Very comfortable but a 650k new price versus a 200k price for a late model 2005 Ovation would be hard to stomach unless I won the powerball lottery. I'm curious on what the new price tag will be for the new Mooney M10J.

Anyway I'll keep shopping for something in my budget.

[MooneyBob]

It is very hard to justify buying brand new plane. I think almost no one on this forum can afford brand new any plane. Maybe some silly 2 seater LSA. But it is different animal.

[Guest]

Certainly none in the CB club or those with CB Hons could afford one.

Clarence

[Andy95W]

New airplanes are great for people who can write off depreciation on their taxes as a business expense. I used to have a private/instrument/multi student who would buy a new airplane when his accountant told him it was time.

His long instrument cross country was from Williamsburg, VA to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico and back with his family on board. THAT was an experience,

[Mcstealth]

Full warranty, ABS in out with up to date "New" electronics, Zero time. You know exactly its history. Sure, there are benefits. As always, worth is subjective.

[triple8s]

I find it hard to believe no one on this forum "could" afford one, I'd say that most folks on the forum are too frugal to spend 600+ thousand when they can buy a nearly as good used be for half or less than a new one. I know several fellows who have high net worths and most of those that have aircraft seem to buy late model used. I did say most.

[MooneyBob]

Full warranty, ABS in out with up to date "New" electronics, Zero time. You know exactly its history. Sure, there are benefits. As always, worth is subjective.

Zero time is not a benefit some times. I prefer 400 hrs proven one.

[Shadrach]

New airplanes are great for people who can write off depreciation on their taxes as a business expense. I used to have a private/instrument/multi student who would buy a new airplane when his accountant told him it was time.

His long instrument cross country was from Williamsburg, VA to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico and back with his family on board. THAT was an experience,

Precisely! There is little incentive to buy brand new from a value standpoint unless you have profits/income to offset. After all a business gets zero return on taxes paid. The 50% Bonus depreciation was renewed last year. I believe that this enabled someone to write off 50% of purchase of a new aircraft. That's $300,000 x your tax rate in savings the first year. The asset can be sold in the future at market value.

[Danb]

That's quite a revolution that those on this forum can't afford to buy a new airplane of which there are benefits, I have bought 2 new Mooneys the 1988 j I had for 7 years and sold it for about 20,000 more than I pd for it, my 1977 I got about 15000 more than I pd for, now in this economy since the housing market hit the toilet my 2005 is not worth nearly what I had hoped, so keeping it a still very new plane is not a problem, therefore I'm not making any rude statements but actually would bet quite a few could afford to buy a new airplane. Look at what most of you will pay for college for your kids, a great investment I might add. Since my daughter graduated from college over 20 yrs ago my spendable or disposable income like many could if they choose could make the purchase..this is not putting anyone done in anyway but rash statements are just that..now there are many great used Mooneys out there many better than mine..

[Danb]

Ross that's only part of the incentive, you may qualify for the section 170e deduction of $500,000+ the bonus depr as you expressed plus if any is left over say buy a jet eg you can then after the two incentives accelerate your remaining dollars using MACRS depr over say 5 or 7 yrs depends...so basically you live in CA you may be in a 35-40%bracket including the state maybe more so the govt on a 700000 plane pays you in this yr. aporox $350,000 of the sales price.,what a great country we live in..these statements are not meant to be depended on or utilized be sure to consult your tax advisor for details if any, this statement disqualifies any info mentioned or inferred above..

[DAVIDWH]

Wasn't that a used (1996) Ovation that flew from Labrador to Belfast Int. in about 9 hours.

 

For those who say the grass is always greener............

 

For me that would be pretty green grass, but there is always another view.

[Bravoman]

I'm no accountant but I would think that for most of us airplanes are like boats in terms of buying new. In other words you can always find a well taken care of slightly used example for a much less cost. And the used one does everything just as well and sometimes better.

[Danb]

Luckily they make new airplanes or there would be no used ones to fly! Does anyone buy a new car, or always buy a used one? I recently bought a 6 month old car for a large discount.

[Shadrach]

Luckily they make new airplanes or there would be no used ones to fly! Does anyone buy a new car, or always buy a used one? I recently bought a 6 month old car for a large discount.

I've never bought a new car. I've bought several 6-12month old cars that were barely through their first oil change.  I've never had a car payment either.  Though in todays interest rate environment I admit it makes sense to finance.

[Cruiser]

I sat in the mock-up of the new M10T at the Mooney factory on Saturday. Much roomier than the M20's, side stick control. Single lever engine management. Large doors on both sides, it will be easy to get in an out of.

 

Their Chief Finance guy said he has not set a price yet. 

[Hank]

I've never bought a new car. I've bought several 6-12month old cars that were barely through their first oil change.  I've never had a car payment either.  Though in todays interest rate environment I admit it makes sense to finance.

You can get a good deal on pre-titled cars, generally 20-25%, still under factory warranty. New planes depreciate, too, but not that fast.

[ryoder]

I only buy new cars but get great deals with my owner loyalty rebates, supplier discount, and GM card rebates. New cars are cheap compared to any kind of airplane expense and I haven't seen large depreciation. I don't get the 375k cost for a new 172 but people buy them.

[Danb]

I'll bet a new Bo is going close to 1m?.

[Shadrach]

You can get a good deal on pre-titled cars, generally 20-25%, still under factory warranty. New planes depreciate, too, but not that fast.

 

I have access to dealer auctions.  I bought my wife's car site unseen from an auction in Dallas. It had 4,800 on the clock.  Window sticker was 6 months old and 40% more than what I paid. I don't always do that well but as a certified CB, I do my best.

[manoflamancha]

True if I had a business earning 20MM a year and had clients in another state then a new Mooney Ovation would be worthwhile. Unfortunately I do not.

However, with that said, I can afford to buy and maintain a nice Mooney M20F or an older 201J and still have funds left over for hangar, insurance, avgas and maintenance.

 

Most of the time it is just myself and another pilot friend so no need to spend 600K plus on new one when a good used one costs 500K less. Still compared to a new Cessna Corvallis or Cirrus, the new Ovation is 200K less expensive. I was speaking to a Cirrus and Cessna rep and they quoted me close to 900K for a new plane. The Ovation does not have a chute but in my view a better aircraft.

[bonal]

Job opportunity, with infant mortality being what it is you buy your brand new airplane and I will fly it around for you for the first couple hundred hours and prove the motor reliable . My rates will be most reasonable even though I'm putting my life on the line for your peace of mind

[Hank]

Job opportunity, with infant mortality being what it is you buy your brand new airplane and I will fly it around for you for the first couple hundred hours and prove the motor reliable . My rates will be most reasonable even though I'm putting my life on the line for your peace of mind

Doggone it, I'm out of another job already!!

[N1026F]

New planes are too expensive unless you have the IRS 179 bonus depreciation in effect and enough of a tax liability to take advantage of the immediate reduction in exposure. Then you have to worry about capital gains when you sell it if it's been depreciated below your selling price. Not a real problem though, capital gains is still less than the ordinary tax rate for that level of income.  The real hicky come in the form of sales tax unless you trade through a broker. Then, like cars, you only pay the tax difference between the two planes. Learned it in a "fortune" cookie.

[AustinKalb]

I just bought an absolutely-like-new, super sweet, enthusiast-owned 2007 Mercedes E350 4matic Estate with new OEM wheels and Michelin tires and only 24,000 miles on the clock for $17,000. It was a $60,000 car. As a certified CB, I never have understood why so many people pay full retail for new cars.

I used to only buy new cars. I liked the warrenty and the fact that I was the only one wearing it out. That said, I just bought a used porsche. It had only 3000 miles and the CPO warranty was better that the new car warranty. And of course it was 30% below sticker.

Airplanes are different. 1. My wife feels safer because we bought it new. 2. I feel safer knowing it from build to Today. I'm pretty much the only one who has flown it (except MSC during annuals). It still looks and feels new after 8 years. Not a single squwak. That's just me.,,

[AndyFromCB]

I've never bought a new car. I've bought several 6-12month old cars that were barely through their first oil change.  I've never had a car payment either.  Though in todays interest rate environment I admit it makes sense to finance.

 

I used to think that way, but I see a lot of used cars advertised for what I can get a new one from internet sales/fleet manager. My last two purchases ended up somewhere in the 10K under MSRP with minimal pain. Trick is to always find high volume dealers. RAM dealer I got the truck from moves about 1000 of them a month. $46K sticker for $35K, Subaru was $39K sticker for $31K, dealer moves about 700 a month. For the BMW, it was a dealer demo, 4,000 miles or so, $10K under the sticker, too. He moves a ton of BMWs. Only the RAM purchase was in town. Subaru came from Denver, BMW from KC.

 

Almost new used doesn't make much sense unless you're looking at MSRP and buying from a salesman.