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Interesting situation on approach, what do you do?

Oscar Avalle

By Oscar Avalle
in Miscellaneous Aviation Talk

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Oscar Avalle Grand Master

Oscar Avalle

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Yesterday I flew to a field that I normally don't fly to. It was IFR so I filed an IFR flight plan and was talking to ATC. I was handed over to a new controller about 20 miles from the field. Barometric setting and expect lower were the only two issues that were shared with me. 14 miles from the field, I got a call from ATC asking me why I had not joined the 15 miles arc for the VOR DME 15 approach. I apologized and tried to load the approach on my GTN 750. Now, it starts to become interesting... No VOR DME 15 was listed!!! Ok, let's not panic, it must be in Jeppview... no, IT WAS NOT!!!! So I looked into my old paper chart... Volah! here it is. So I was able to set up the approach and fly it and landed. 

 

After clearing customs, I got a call from ATC basically wanting to blame me that I had not all needed charts for the flight on board. I explained that I was not given the approach and that Jeppesen had not included the approach in its latest update. ATC took note and closed the issue.  

 

But, I am still thinking about the situation. What should I have done? We as PIC are supposed to ensure that we have all the available charts for then flight. But, what do you do, if JEPP does not provide the chart that ATC gives you...?  Are you still on the hook?

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Jeff_S Grand Master

Jeff_S

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What airport? It sounds like it was an uncontrolled field, which means you should have been able to fly any approach you wanted. (I believe that's true even of a controlled field, but it's a bit more problematic.)  So if there were other approaches available that would get you down, why did you not just refuse the VOR and take one of them?

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PTK Grand Master

PTK

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Oscar, you say you found it in your "old" paper charts. Was it an old approach that perhaps was decommissioned?

Did you fly a current approach or an expired one? I hope they didn't have you fly an expired approach!

 

Sometimes ATC makes mistakes. One time I had an IF given to me by its old name.  HUVOX, RNAV 22  into GED. They questioned me if I had current charts when I told them I don't see it! Then they realized it.

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cliffy Grand Master

cliffy

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Interesting to say the least.

What was your last route clearance received before the hand off?

What was the route clearance you were given at departure? Was it ever changed enroute?

As was said, more info needed. What airport? Jeppesen has missed stuff before.

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Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

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Oscar, you say you found it in your "old" paper charts. Was it an old approach that perhaps was decommissioned?

Did you fly a current approach or an expired one? I hope they didn't have you fly an expired approach!

 

Sometimes ATC makes mistakes. One time I had an IF given to me by its old name.  HUVOX, RNAV 22  into GED. They questioned me if I had current charts when I told them I don't see it! Then they realized it.

 

Peter -- I just flew the LPV into RWY 22 at KGED. HUVOX is the current IF/IAF. What was the old name?

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Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

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Yesterday I flew to a field that I normally don't fly to. It was IFR so I filed an IFR flight plan and was talking to ATC. I was handed over to a new controller about 20 miles from the field. Barometric setting and expect lower were the only two issues that were shared with me. 14 miles from the field, I got a call from ATC asking me why I had not joined the 15 miles arc for the VOR DME 15 approach. I apologized and tried to load the approach on my GTN 750. Now, it starts to become interesting... No VOR DME 15 was listed!!! Ok, let's not panic, it must be in Jeppview... no, IT WAS NOT!!!! So I looked into my old paper chart... Volah! here it is. So I was able to set up the approach and fly it and landed. 

 

After clearing customs, I got a call from ATC basically wanting to blame me that I had not all needed charts for the flight on board. I explained that I was not given the approach and that Jeppesen had not included the approach in its latest update. ATC took note and closed the issue.  

 

But, I am still thinking about the situation. What should I have done? We as PIC are supposed to ensure that we have all the available charts for then flight. But, what do you do, if JEPP does not provide the chart that ATC gives you...?  Are you still on the hook?

 

 

You're killing us Oscar! There are 8 of us online, on your thread, waiting to hear which approach!

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Mooneymite Grand Master

Mooneymite

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This sort of thing is not uncommon at all in international ops.

 

There are a lot of approaches that are not loaded into our FMS due to not being authorized by our op-specs, or various other reasons.  When assigned an approach we don't carry, we just say, "Unable" and then tell them what approach we want, or are capable of shooting.  Approach can't make you fly an approach you don't want, (but they can make life miserable if you are uncooperative).

 

I would be somewhat suspiscious of an approach not in the current Jepp database and probably request something that was current and installed.

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Oscar Avalle Grand Master

Oscar Avalle

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Well, I just wanted to keep the suspense... I was not held without bail (although the tone of the initial conversation with ATC in El Salvador sounded as if I was in DEEP TROUBLE).

 

Actually I returned this morning from my trip and then I was tied up in meetings until now...

 

To clarify: the airport was MSSS (Ilopango, El Salvador). It is the largest GA airport in the country. It is towered airport, I will upload a video later of the flight.

 

I was not given a clearance and it helped tremendously that I always tape the ATC exchange... I actually played it to the equivalent FAA supervisor on the field this morning before I left and he apologized for their mistake. I agree in the US I could have asked for a different approach, but here... I don't know. I was not given an option. It was not: OK N9341V if the approach is not in your database, just fly the VOR 15 approach... It was more like, if you don't have in your database FY and figure out what to do. So, I ended up flying with an expired chart.

 

If somebody wants to recreat the flight it was:

 

MGGT AUR A770 YSV MSSS (VOR DME 15)

 

However, this morning I was again given the clearance and here again, the SID was not in the GTN database, nor in the 430. So I had to figure out how to fly it based on what i was told...

 

Well, otherwise the flight was simply incredible, scenary very nice and a hazy ILS approach into MGGT.

 

Oscar

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