Update for Mooney WAAS, ADS-B Upgrades for Stec equipped planes

[sellis]

Mooney International does have a certification program that will start approximately late 2nd quarter. We will be using a company owned Ovation for the certification program. After FAA approval all Stec autopilot and G1000 equipped aircraft will be  eligible for upgrades to ADS-B out and WAAS upgrades including all vertical approach modes. We anticipate to receive approval in approximately late 3rd quarter. At this time we will then offer a retrofit kit for the mentioned aircraft. Many owners of these aircraft are understandably concerned with this issue, but in no way have we forgotten you owners of these aircraft. We will issue a press release when the program is complete. I will also post the release to this website. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

[Danb]

Stacey..you are a rock star today...you have managed to pick up my spirits on one of the lower points of my life( nothing to do with flying). Thanx. DB

[Robert C.]

Stacey,

 

You made my day

 

Time to start saving the pennies for what will be my birthday or Christmas present

 

Robert

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Any idea (even ballpark) of what current owners could expect to pay for this "upgrade"?

[mike_elliott]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2015 at 2:43 PM, sellis said:

Mooney International does have a certification program that will start approximately late 2nd quarter. We will be using a company owned Ovation for the certification program. After FAA approval all Stec autopilot and G1000 equipped aircraft will be  eligible for upgrades to ADS-B out and WAAS upgrades including all vertical approach modes. We anticipate to receive approval in approximately late 3rd quarter. At this time we will then offer a retrofit kit for the mentioned aircraft. Many owners of these aircraft are understandably concerned with this issue, but in no way have we forgotten you owners of these aircraft. We will issue a press release when the program is complete. I will also post the release to this website. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

VNC for STECs ?? THAT would be way cool!

[carusoam]

Through thick and thin...

Stacey stays with us!, and keeps us informed...

Thanks for the encouraging update,

-a-

[Txbyker]

Stacey, thanks for the concise and informative update. It is appreciated.

Russ

[Jeff_S]

Awesome news, and happy to hear. Just one follow-up question for Stacey & Mooney, though: he specifically said ADS-B Out.  I'm curious what, if any, facilities there will be to equip with ADS-B In so that we can have weather and traffic options on the MFD to replace the TIS-B and GDL69.  Is that something that Garmin has to address or is it a Mooney issue as well?

[LANCECASPER]

Awesome news, and happy to hear. Just one follow-up question for Stacey & Mooney, though: he specifically said ADS-B Out.  I'm curious what, if any, facilities there will be to equip with ADS-B In so that we can have weather and traffic options on the MFD to replace the TIS-B and GDL69.  Is that something that Garmin has to address or is it a Mooney issue as well?

 

 

 

 

Under the "Compatible Devices" tab, Garmin mentions regarding the GDL-88 that future support is planned for the G-1000.

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-88/prod63471.html

[Robert C.]

It'll be interesting to see which way they go. I'm by no means an expert on the options, but would think that it's more logical to upgrade the GPS units to WAAS, and the GTX330 to GTX330ES. Here is my thinking:

 

• Stacey's comment mentions ADS-B Out only.
• The GDL-88 works on the UAT band with both -in and -out, but....you need to be on the 1090 band with an ES for FL180 and higher 
• The 1090 band doesn't carry the ADS-B In.
• Given that the solution needs to work for Bravos, Acclaims and the odd Ovation cruising at/above FL180 I'd expect them to work on a 1090 mhz band solution (which would therefore exclude the GDL-88 hence ADS-B in).
• The late model Acclaims and Ovations have a WAAS GPS and 330ES transponder
• A solution that creates the link to ADS-B out for the late model a/c and a complete solution for the older G1000 would be most efficient from a development and engineering perspective (I would assume).

 

Time will tell.

 

Robert

[Piloto]

Awesome news, and happy to hear. Just one follow-up question for Stacey & Mooney, though: he specifically said ADS-B Out.  I'm curious what, if any, facilities there will be to equip with ADS-B In so that we can have weather and traffic options on the MFD to replace the TIS-B and GDL69.  Is that something that Garmin has to address or is it a Mooney issue as well?

 

Most of the G1000s that I have seen have active traffic systems and XM weather. Unless you want to save $30/month on XM subscription why would you upgrade to the ADS-B-in if the plane already has weather and traffic capability? If you do not have weather and traffic just spend $30,000 for active traffic and XM weather. BTW I deduct XM subscription on the Schedule C 1040 form and get it for free.  

 

José  

[Robert C.]

Most of the G1000s that I have seen have active traffic systems and XM weather. 

José  

 

Correct, I for one am not currently planning on dropping my XM Weather and Active Traffic for ADS-B In.

[ArtVandelay]

Most of the G1000s that I have seen have active traffic systems and XM weather. Unless you want to save $30/month on XM subscription why would you upgrade to the ADS-B-in if the plane already has weather and traffic capability? If you do not have weather and traffic just spend $30,000 for active traffic and XM weather. BTW I deduct XM subscription on the Schedule C 1040 form and get it for free.

José

but isn't the active traffic TIS-A, from the mode S transponder, which is not nearly as good as TIS-B

[Piloto]

but isn't the active traffic TIS-A, from the mode S transponder, which is not nearly as good as TIS-B

Active traffic systems are like TCAS systems. They interrogate the traffic transponder directly for a reply back. They do not rely on a ground based system and the traffic does not need to be ADS-B out or even Mode S equipped, but at least Mode A/C equipped. An active traffic system will detect traffic from the ground up anywhere in the world. TCAS is what the airliners use and required by law. In a TCAS II traffic encounter the TCAS II coordinate who climbs and who descends to avoid a collision. This requires a link between the two aircraft that is not possible with ADS-B out. 

 

José

[ArtVandelay]

Active traffic systems are like TCAS systems. They interrogate the traffic transponder directly for a reply back. They do not rely on a ground based system and the traffic does not need to be ADS-B out or even Mode S equipped, but at least Mode A/C equipped. An active traffic system will detect traffic from the ground up anywhere in the world. TCAS is what the airliners use and required by law. In a TCAS II traffic encounter the TCAS II coordinate who climbs and who descends to avoid a collision. This requires a link between the two aircraft that is not possible with ADS-B out.

José

But I didn't think G1000 systems came with TCAS, just the TIS-A

[Jeff_S]

I would say SOME planes have active traffic from L3, Avidyne or other, but many have the stock TIS system that relies on transponder output within a TRACON area. That's the boat I'm in, as my traffic doesn't display in rural areas.  That's why I was wondering about ADS-B in, mostly for traffic.  And it's true I would not give up on the XM weather service as it has more than ADS-B provides.

[Mark89114]

I am looking at an ovation that is G1000 equipped with a GFC700 autopilot. To get the WAAS upgrade is about $30k. Seems ridiculous to me. The avionics shop said that mooney was probably marking it up. No idea what it would cost for the STEC versions.

[carusoam]

Pick your favorite bad guy...

G is easy to blame for their inability to play nice in the sandbox with other manufacturers...

Mooney was easy to blame because they stopped working on new technologies for a while...

Owners are not going to be happy with a bill for a WAAS upgrade where the technology isn't new...

An example for not new technology... I still use a G196 portable WAAS unit from Y2K....

My iPad 1 has WAAS capability with it's SkyRadar...

Mooney had recently reported some headway regarding updates for G1000 units.

The headline was something related to ADSB addition.

The really expensive part is the qualification and testing for the new technology in the old airframes...

This qualification needs to be done for the new planes as well. New brand C and brand B etc...

If the factory is only producing M20S planes they would need to have agreement with the FAA to not have to duplicate the testing for M20M and M20R.

Contact your favorite bad guy, see what they have in mind. Let them know your level of interest.

How does that sound?

If they come back with a 10 AMU solution, this was a 20 AMU idea....

It will probably help to have a heavy-hitting Garmin specific shop get you the answer you are looking for... Not a job for the ordinary 10 GTNs per month shop....

When all else fails, bring in your BK KSN770 brochure. It has a nice HD touch screen with it's WAAS GPS and ADSB transponder and will integrate with your AP (unless G doesn't want it to).

Competition is good for the end user.

Best regards,

-a-

[Txbyker]

I am looking at an ovation that is G1000 equipped with a GFC700 autopilot. To get the WAAS upgrade is about $30k. Seems ridiculous to me. The avionics shop said that mooney was probably marking it up. No idea what it would cost for the STEC versions.

I am pretty sure the G-1000/GFC700 requires two new GIA-63 and antennas. At the end of 2013 the WAAS only kit was $24k and the WAAS/VNAV was about $33k. Add install to that. Showmethemooney is well versed on this.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/9747-ads-b-on-the-g1000/#entry137789

Not sure what we STECs will need pending the 3Q estimate and if it will be ADSB-in as well.

Russ

[Marauder]

I am pretty sure the G-1000/GFC700 requires two new GIA-63 and antennas. At the end of 2013 the WAAS only kit was $24k and the WAAS/VNAV was about $33k. Add install to that. Showmethemooney is well versed on this.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/9747-ads-b-on-the-g1000/#entry137789

Not sure what we STECs will need pending the 3Q estimate and if it will be ADSB-in as well.

Russ

Yummy...

[Ftlausa]

I will be very interested in seeing what the total cost will be for the WAAS ADS-B upgrade in the GX Ovations.  I have considered moving from my WAAS equipped J to an Ovation, but with the unknown cost associated with upgrading the G1000 Ovations, I am staying put for now.  I suspect that there are others thinking the same thing as I have seen the same Ovations sitting on the market for a number of months.  Essentially, you don't know what you real cost is going to be for the plane until these upgrade costs are known.     

[carusoam]

Go O1!

Price of WAAS upgrades are well known here. Not any more than adding WAAS to an F or J...

Adding digital screens is possible from multiple (two) suppliers...

Or just stay old school... Your choice.

[Robert C.]

Mooney International does have a certification program that will start approximately late 2nd quarter. We will be using a company owned Ovation for the certification program. After FAA approval all Stec autopilot and G1000 equipped aircraft will be  eligible for upgrades to ADS-B out and WAAS upgrades including all vertical approach modes. We anticipate to receive approval in approximately late 3rd quarter. At this time we will then offer a retrofit kit for the mentioned aircraft. Many owners of these aircraft are understandably concerned with this issue, but in no way have we forgotten you owners of these aircraft. We will issue a press release when the program is complete. I will also post the release to this website. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

 

Hi Stacey,

 

Happy to be patient, but would love an update.

 

Can you share with us how the test flight program is coming along?

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

[Jdfmooney]

Is there a new timeline for the G1000 to WAAS and ADS-B? We are well past the third quarter and last I spoke with Paul at Mooney, he was not aware of a project for this to be started yet. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, JDF.

Best regards,

-a-