Mooney's with G-1000/Stec autopilot

[Danb]

For those of us mostly 2005 through 2006 and some 2007 models, we purchased our airplanes with the thought we would be able to be WAAS approved, as we know without installing a GFC autopilot its impossible since our planes were certified with the STEC autopilots. Since Mooney is now in operation I inquired if Mooney was going to re-ceritfy  our airplanes with the STEC setup and WAAS, many of us are faithful Mooney drivers (I'v been flying Mooney's since 1985 and have had 2 new Mooneys) I'd rather not switch brands. Anyway Paul their Technical support engineer was actually nice enough to respond to my inquiry and stated that Mooney DOES have a plan for WAAS certification but at this time does not have a time table for this to occur. He stated as the Garmin engineer said that the technical issues will not be that difficult but there will be a length of time for the actual certification process with the FAA ..Stay in touch with the Mooney website for the latest info. in this regard..Hopefull this will occur and those of us with this set-up will be able to utilize our planes to the fullest capacity..........

 

[Marauder]

All that drooling is paying off... Hopefully the cost will be reasonable.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Danb]

Thanx Chris I had Dorn dry it off with one of there torch's

[Danb]

Yeah the cost with the GFC is north of $70k. No way....it would be awesome if it would come in under $20k

[Txbyker]

Thanks Dan, that correlates with my info too.  I have petitioned them quite a bit lately including a discussion with the president at the MAPA convention, getting Don Maxwell to ping them, emails, etc.  The STEC will fly approaches no problem as it does for GNS430s and G500s.  Its just an FAA cert thing that Mooney and Garmin have to work.

[KSMooniac]

This will be a good test case to see how much they care about supporting the fleet with reasonable costs/policies.  I know a big part of it is Garmin's un-reasonableness, but hopefully they make this less-than-painful.  

[mike_elliott]

Yeah the cost with the GFC is north of $70k. No way....it would be awesome if it would come in under $20k

 

BUT....you get a free DVD player to go into the hole left by the STEC 55!

 

Seriously, David Kayden has been running point on getting this combo wassafied. If you would like his contact info, send me a PM..

[Piloto]

Since you will need WAAS for ADS-B out how much more to upgrade or replace the transponder for the G1000?

Jose

[Jeff_S]

I have also spoken with Paul Keener about this at length the last few days, as I've been looking at a 2005 Ovation 2 with the same set-up. He did indicate some positive momentum in this area and that while there is no specific timeline, they do realize it's a needed feature and it is on the drawing board. Interestingly, he hadn't even thought of the whole 2020 ADS-B compliance angle, which I found somewhat surprising, but he now has that on his radar.

 

However, don't kid yourself about the cost. Even if they get it certified it seems that you'll have to pull and replace at least one, if not both, of the display units, the radio, swap out antennas and a few other components of the G1000 that I didn't recognize (he was throwing out acronyms). Given all that, I asked him point blank if it was likely to be "about $50K all-in" to make the switch and he said "that's about right."  Of course, not hard numbers, but something to plan for.

 

I casually, somewhat jokingly mentioned that of course all this would be for naught if the company went out of business again, and to this he perked up and said that he was very impressed with the new management and their 10 year plan, and he was more encouraged than he has been for a long time about the long term prospects for the company. So that is good news as well...as long as they can hit their targets!

[PTK]

This will be a good test case to see how much they care about supporting the fleet with reasonable costs/policies. I know a big part of it is Garmin's un-reasonableness, but hopefully they make this less-than-painful.

That's right!

Frankly that's Mooney and Garmin's problem. We'll see how much they both care about their loyal base. Most of the burden being on Mooney. They'd be stupid to alienate existing customers!

Interesting dynamic to watch unfold!

Very short sighted and not the smartest decision on Mooney to put in the Stec in those panels imo.

[jetdriven]

I heard its 80k for the gfc-700 and waas. Synthetic vision extra. The Stec was installed because the gfc was not available.

Retrofitting to a gfc-700 also requires the right Pfd to be replaced as the autopilot buttons are on the left edge of it.

[KSMooniac]

I believe Byron is correct... the GFC700 wasn't certified in time to install in the first GX Mooneys, so the 55x was chosen instead.  And the market was apparently demanding G1000 planes so Mooney did what they could to make that change and get it out.  Lots of other G1000 planes have STEC or King autopilots, so it is not like they're the only one in this situation.

 

Too bad there isn't a more reasonable upgrade path for the GX owners with the 55x installed...such as the DFC90 that uses STEC servos.  The DFC90 needs an Aspen to drive it, and I would bet a dollar Garmin will never allow a G1000 to interface with it instead of an Aspen.     

[Txbyker]

My thoughts exactly in regards to the DFC90.  I believe STEC has a new model due out in a year or so to compete with the DFC90.  Hopefully it will use the old servos.  Our problem with the Ovation is that the whole set up is part of the airframe.  Being able to put together a panel like Don Kaye did would probably be ideal.  I would imagine dual Aspens, DFC90, touch screen Garmins, GTX330ES, top of the line JPI analyzer would probably be less than what Mooney will want for the upgrade.  

 

Russ

[KSMooniac]

And Russ has just explained why a G1000 bird might not be the best idea for a long-term owner.  I wonder if anyone has removed a G1000 system from any plane yet and installed "conventional" systems?  

 

I'm optimistic STEC's new owners will return to their roots so to speak and have more innovation and reasonable prices than in the Cobham era.  I had a friend that worked there and Cobham really destroyed the culture and ran off a lot of employees.

[Piloto]

For Mooney and Garmin it would be easier just to upgrade the non WAAS G1000 Mooneys with the same equipment that is on the current production. This way there is no need to reengineer and recertify a change. This is likely they way they are going to go about this. I got WAAS on my M20J by buying a used G530AW two years ago for $8,000. I have it coupled to a Century 31 and I am impress how well it tracks vertical guidance on GPS/LPV approaches. With so many LPV approaches WAAS has become a must to have. But not at a cost of a new engine.  

 

Jose  

[jetdriven]

to gt WAAS on a Mooney with G1000 you have to spend 80K on the full WAAS box swap and the GFC-700 autopilot which requires a new MFD.

[mike_elliott]

to gt WAAS on a Mooney with G1000 you have to spend 80K on the full WAAS box swap and the GFC-700 autopilot which requires a new MFD.

Some Mooney GX's already have the GFC-700, but not the WAAS. Some have the STEC 55 and don't have an upgrade path to WAAS yet, but I understand Mooney is aware of this. In any event, this is gonna cost some serious AMU's either way.

[Piloto]

Wonder how is this WAAS issue going to affect the appeal and resale value of the M20M and M20R with no WAAS/G1000. Do you discount the selling price for not having WAAS?. Not having WAAS not only keeps you away from GPS/LPV approaches but due to the 2020 ADS-B ruling it also keeps you away from ABC airspace and no flight above 10,000. No sense on having a M20M/G1000 turbo without WAAS and ADS-B out.

 

If the G1000 avionics unit in the tail cone  goes on flames with what would you replace it. I assume a new replacement unit would have WAAS since why would Garmin make new non WAAS units.

 

Jose  

[kmyfm20s]

Why couldn't someone just install a GTN 650 in addition to the G1000? Would the G1000 accept input from an addition Garmin NAV source? I will ask my avionics guy if it's possible and report back if no one has the answer.

[Jeff_S]

I'm not real sure where you would put it. There's not a ton of panel space left over.  I think the more obvious solution, if ADS-B is the real goal, is to adapt the GDL-88 to integrate into the system, since there is a version of that which has the WAAS GPS receiver and it is designed to work totally in the background. But this doesn't solve the problem of the auto pilot and LPV approaches, which is what the pilots really want.

[Ovation3]

At the moment I have decided not to upgrade my Ovation 3 which has a gfc700 for pure economic reasons. 20k for waas upgrade and svt another 10k; prices posted 4 yrs ago. Precise vertical guidance is nice but not completely necessary. Another issue I see with all this is the cost of certification for manufactures, if there was a way to bring this cost down we could have some semblance of affordability. I guess that is why we have EAA and the the thousands of aviators that are flying non certified aircraft.