New Pilot Question

[mooniac15u]

They did make one in the 60's I believe it was the D model and most of them have been converted to retract.  

 

Genius!!!  I would totally buy one! 

 

Oh yeah, I did...

[bhilgy]

I just bought a Mooney M20J MSE last week at 140 hours TT.  I got my Private in August in a 172.  I belong to a club with a Piper Arrow and a 182 so I got some experience in Retrac and HP before buying the Mooney.  AIG required 10 hours of dual and 5 hours of solo before passengers....I guess my 15 hours of retrac helped some.

 

My buddy has a new SR22 and he and I were playing around with weight and balance.  My mooney has a useful load of 1003lbs and by our math I could actually fly 2 couples to his vacation home with fuel reserves while his SR22 could not....that 9.5 gph goes along way when it comes to lightening the fuel load compared to his 13.5 at lean of peak!  This is all paper math so practical experience may vary.  Anywho, don't rule out the Mooney compared to more powerful aircraft when it comes to a family CC!  Just pay very close attention to DA in any loaded aircraft!

[carusoam]

The SR22 shares the power plant with the long body Os and As...

But the Mooneys go faster!

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

I don't understand the rush toward an instrument rating. We take an inexperienced pilot with the ink still wet ink on the PPL, put him or her in a higher performance airplane with a minimal check out to satisfy the insurance company and then stick them in Instrument conditions.

I would say log 100 hours in your new Mooney, get a tail wheel endorsement to learn airplane control, then start the instrument training. Currency will keep you just as safe as an instrument rating.

Cemeteries everywhere are full of pilots and passengers.

Clarence

[Steve Dawson]

Learning and earning your IR gives you knowledge of weather, navaids, procedures, accuracy both in flying and planning, opportunity to experience learning with someone that has been there and has that experience (in most cases). You definitely become a better pilot and learn more about yourself as well as what to stay away from and what is safe. I believe it's still 150 hours before you can get your IR rating so my guess is that they put that restriction there to obtain more skill.

Currency is great but not the same as more knowledge.

I would say wisdom and good choices will help keep you out of cemeteries.

Why do insurance companies lower your rates with an IR rating?

[Hank]

I flew my Mooney for 2 years and >200 hours, including a trip WV-->WY and back, before I started on my Instrument rating. Learn the plane and get comfortable in it first. Knowing the plane, how it worked and what it did in most any situation made the rating more procedures than actual flying. There was some adjustment for doing unnatural things like flying a holding pattern under the hood, but those were minimal.

[1964-M20E]

I don't understand the rush toward an instrument rating. We take an inexperienced pilot with the ink still wet ink on the PPL, put him or her in a higher performance airplane with a minimal check out to satisfy the insurance company and then stick them in Instrument conditions.

I would say log 100 hours in your new Mooney, get a tail wheel endorsement to learn airplane control, then start the instrument training. Currency will keep you just as safe as an instrument rating.

Cemeteries everywhere are full of pilots and passengers.

Clarence

Clarence

 

Great point.  One needs to have a though understanding of the plane he is flying before trying to learn instrument flying.  Your hands need to be able to go where they need to be and do what they need to do without thinking.  I recommended working on his IR while he had the instructor in the plane anyway which I still do some hood time with the new plane will be good experience either way.

 

I had my Money for about a year before I officially started on my IR.  I was out there by myself flying the approaches at uncontrolled airports and at some controlled ones when I was traveling there in full VMC just to get the feel of how the plane is reacting and visually where I am with respect to the approach.

I had my Money for about a year before I officially started on my IR.  I was out there by myself flying the approaches at uncontrolled airports and at some controlled ones when I was traveling there in full VMC just to get the feel of how the plane is reacting and visually where I am with respect to the approach.

[mike_elliott]

I don't understand the rush toward an instrument rating. We take an inexperienced pilot with the ink still wet ink on the PPL, put him or her in a higher performance airplane with a minimal check out to satisfy the insurance company and then stick them in Instrument conditions.

I would say log 100 hours in your new Mooney, get a tail wheel endorsement to learn airplane control, then start the instrument training. Currency will keep you just as safe as an instrument rating.

Cemeteries everywhere are full of pilots and passengers.

Clarence

While I cannot refute anything you recommend here, Clarence, I have also observed that sometimes the freshly minted pilot is usually a better pilot than the freshly minted plus 100 hours if training is not ongoing. Complacency starts to take set, and continuing your education with the IR after the PP is one way to keep the edge. Your recommendation of a tail wheel endorsement and improving stick and rudder skills is spot on.

[Mooneymite]

I don't understand the rush toward an instrument rating.

Clarence

I am a proponent of adding the instrument ticket right away.

Look at how the military trains pilots....there is no hiatus to allow VFR habits to harden. Moving right into flying by reference to instruments just makes sense.

In my (limited) experience, the pilots who have the most difficulty with instrument flying are the ones who wait. They have a lot of difficulty "letting go" of the visual picture. They are also the ones who allow their instrument currency lapse because they are so much more comfortable VFR.

Get that IR....the sooner the better!

And the tailwheel endorsement.

[Marauder]

I am a proponent of adding the instrument ticket right away.

Look at how the military trains pilots....there is no hiatus to allow VFR habits to harden. Moving right into flying by reference to instruments just makes sense.

In my (limited) experience, the pilots who have the most difficulty with instrument flying are the ones who wait. They have a lot of difficulty "letting go" of the visual picture. They are also the ones who allow their instrument currency lapse because they are so much more comfortable VFR.

Get that IR....the sooner the better!

And the tailwheel endorsement.

I'm in the "let them learn" camp as well. I don't remember the exact numbers I had in my Mooney before instrument training, but it was less than 30. What I learned immediately was power settings to fly a stabilized approach. Before that, I was sloppy with power management.

In addition, I finally started to understand the importance of weather and "go/no go" decision making. For me, the instrument rating pulled it all together.

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[Mooneymite]

Good point....instrument training makes one a more precise VMC pilot!

The military teaches flying with reference to visual, instruments, and formation.....each reinforces the other building on one another.

[rbridges]

I don't understand the rush toward an instrument rating. We take an inexperienced pilot with the ink still wet ink on the PPL, put him or her in a higher performance airplane with a minimal check out to satisfy the insurance company and then stick them in Instrument conditions.

I would say log 100 hours in your new Mooney, get a tail wheel endorsement to learn airplane control, then start the instrument training. Currency will keep you just as safe as an instrument rating.

Cemeteries everywhere are full of pilots and passengers.

Clarence

 

 

I don't see a problem with pursuing the IR shortly afterwards unless you're burned out from the PPL.  I wouldn't throw that new pilot in ceiling minimums, but you learn sooo much with the IR.  I still have lots to learn, but I can honestly say that I can fly my plane much better after completion of the instrument ticket than when I started.  My radio skills are also much improved.  Even flying VFR, I benefit from having the extra rating.

[carusoam]

I think we are describing education vs. experience...

It is better to have both.

Getting the master's degree doesn't fill the experience account...

Getting the experience doesn't earn the degree or rating...

So let's get started on the education, realizing we are short on the experience.

My son earned his driver's license this morning.

I'm full of fatherly advice today.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

I think we are describing education vs. experience...

It is better to have both.

Getting the master's degree doesn't fill the experience account...

Getting the experience doesn't earn the degree or rating...

So let's get started on the education, realizing we are short on the experience.

My son earned his driver's license this morning.

I'm full of fatherly advice today.

Best regards,

-a-

Thank you Dad!

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[Guest]

Steve,

Just checked the local flying school web site, here's what it says about experience for the instrument rating:

An applicant shall have completed a minimum of:

50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command in aeroplanes

40 hours instrument time of which a maximum of 20 hours may be instrument ground time, including:

One dual cross-country flight under simulated or actual IMC conditions to a point a minimum of 100 nautical miles radius from the point of departure. The flight is to be conducted in accordance with an IFR flight plan and must include, at 2 different locations, an instrument approach to minima.

The point I was trying to make is experience and currency are important.

Clarence

[Steve Dawson]

Steve,

Just checked the local flying school web site, here's what it says about experience for the instrument rating:

An applicant shall have completed a minimum of:

50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command in aeroplanes

40 hours instrument time of which a maximum of 20 hours may be instrument ground time, including:

One dual cross-country flight under simulated or actual IMC conditions to a point a minimum of 100 nautical miles radius from the point of departure. The flight is to be conducted in accordance with an IFR flight plan and must include, at 2 different locations, an instrument approach to minima.

The point I was trying to make is experience and currency are important.

Clarence

 

 I agree with you on this. I just went through some re-currency with them and another school and can't believe how much I needed it.