Here's to the Mother ****ing FAA

[m20j]

Well, personally I think you got lucky.

 

He could have nailed you to the wall for that Left Hand entry door, which as far as I can recall, is a highly desirable but unapproved modification to your Mooney.

 

 

[carusoam]

Doh!

This report belongs to a non-Mooney plane?

Here's to making the quota!

[WardHolbrook]

With the FAA's apparent attitude towards dents, I could make a fortune with one of those boxes and a ball peen hammer! Hmmm...

 

The guy I mentioned goes around doing just that. 

 

I honestly don't understand the how that box works - it uses electromagnetic energy and aluminum is non-magnetic. Like I said, it's a magic box.

 

As for the aerodynamics involved in dents. There are some places where it probably wouldn't matter much - say for example on the fuselage or upper or lower wing surfaces. However, when a dent affects the leading edge, especially out near the tips, on a laminar-flow wing such as on a Mooney, then it's a whole different animal and is of much more concern. It really gets their attention when it occurs on the leading edge of a swept wing jet. Like I said, our dent on the Falcon was only about 1 inch long and barely perceptible from certain angles, yet it would have necessitated replacing the entire leading edge slat on the wing if the dent was not repaired.

[N601RX]

Dents can also be removed with a round steel ball and a very strong magnet. The ball is placed inside the wing and the magnet is slid back and fourth on the outside.  The ball has an extremely small contact area with the surface and will remove a little of the dent each time it rolls over it.  Because the contact area is small, it doesn't take a lot of force.

[carusoam]

I'm sure the electro magnetic part is the box, not so much the wing.

Inducing a current to locally heat the wing? Is interesting...

How hot does it need to get? Hot enough to melt the paint, but not the aluminum?

Bet regards,

-a-

[mooniac15u]

I'm sure the electro magnetic part is the box, not so much the wing.

Inducing a current to locally heat the wing? Is interesting...

How hot does it need to get? Hot enough to melt the paint, but not the aluminum?

Bet regards,

-a-

 

It isn't heating the wing.  It uses differential magnetic fields to apply pressure to the back of dent.

 

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/10387162/electronic-dent-removal-a-look-at-this-unique-process

[jkhirsch]

Hello everyone, had a bit of a hectic weekend which kept me away from the boards. As promised I have returned with photos, and one of somebody's Mooney hanging out at KLEX 9151X.

Just for posterity I posted the pictures of my labeled fuel tanks. I also threw in a couple of pictures of the plane, just for fun. Feel free to cast your judgement.

 

In the mean time I was finally able to speak to Stacey from Mooney, thanks to Scott apparently, and I got all the answers I figured I'd get, but he did mentioned that he thought the skins were only a couple hundred bucks in parts--so that quelled me a bit.

 

I want to say that I appreciate everyone's feedback in this thread, after-all misery loves company.

 

Keep in mind, none of this damage has ever been brought to my attention by any A&P or IA as a potential problem.

 

[KSMooniac]

I believe the outboard wing skins are terribly awful to replace... I would go ahead and get that done.  It will be mildly painful, but the correct thing to do for your plane.

 

Your elevator damage would worry me the most.  That elevator needs to be re-skinned or replaced IMO.  

 

Good luck however you proceed.

[chrisk]

I'm no expert in this area, but the elevator would bother me. 

 

As for the wings.   I've seen so may planes that have much bigger dents in the leading edge of the tail.  I assume from unimproved fields.   I've also seen many with bigger dents on the leading edge of the wing.  I can't imagine the wing is a real issue.  The left hand outboard wing skin does look odd though. --Like the skin was not quite big enough.

[piperpainter]

The elevator is the biggest concern if you ask me. The rest is probably nit picking. He sees the wings...okay whatev...then more then he sees the elevator and.....okay that's it....gotta send notice. Sucky either way

[TWinter]

Not an expert and hate to see a Mooney bird grounded, especially a MS member. In all honestly after seeing some of pics I can see why some attention was drawn to the plane. I do admire your candor in showing the pics in a fair unedited and unbiased depiction. There are probably a few areas as mentioned above that I would see needing repaired just from a safety standpoint. Take this post in the spirit I intend. Did he get carried away, certainly. They often forget we are keeping 60 yr old birds alive. Did he address a few things that I think needed attention..I have to agree he was fairly accurate on some points. I wish you the very best and hopefully she will be wheels up soon with minimal expense.

[flyingvee201]

Buying the skins might be the easiest part. Finding the right shop to lay down the new skins is important, then a paint job.

[Hector]

Yeap, other than the elevator, I see nothing there to get terribly excited about, and even the elevator ( assuming all surrounding structure was inspected and the damage is localized) is not something I would ground the aircraft over, but would require it be repaired at next annual.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[jetdriven]

That elevator is cause for concern, the skin is wrinkled and it has a crack. As Scott says, it should be reskinned. The wingtip also looks pretty bad, there's a hole at the wingtip which shouldn't be there. You get 10% on metal thickness per AC43.13 unless Mooney approves a larger amount. One picture of the leading edge skin corrosion looks like more than that. Also, the data plate doesn't contain all the information that is stamped on it. Painted over is one thing, but covering 3 lines of info with a label I don't think will do. Like I said before, have your mechanic sign it off as he did 6 months ago and all is well.

[DaV8or]

I see nothing about the OP's airplane that will cause it to break up and fall out of the sky... for now. That elevator has me concerned over the long term. I believe it will get worse with time. The dents, the corrosion and the wing tip damage is no biggie IMO with regards to safety of flight. In a free world, aside from the elevator, this plane would fly on for another 40 years I'm sure. However, we live in the world of laws, regulations and certified aircraft, so these deficiencies likely exceed the mandated limits. The data plate, the gas cap placards and the step fairing are 100% bull crap.

 

The A&Ps and IAs you hired in the past have done you no favors IMO. I would highly suggest you get the plane to a Mooney specialist and get the required repairs done. However, if the previous "experts" signed off on this, what else have they pencil whipped? Could get pricey. I am saddened by this and wish you the best of luck. I really do.

[BigTex]

Years ago they used to use large crimping tools to trim the aircraft.  The elevators looked like someone really got carried away with it.  Mine has some of that but not to that level.

 

As for the wing... I recently had my outer panel re-skinned at Don Maxwell's place.  It's true the skin isn't that much (~$800 from Mooney) the real cost is in the labor and paint.  For me the total was $2700 for the re-skin and $1500 for paint.  So expect to pay something north of $4,000 for the wing repair.

[N33GG]

About 15 years ago I purchased a 201 J Model that was really nice, except it had been kept in a community hangar, and had the hangar rash to prove it. An elevator here, an aileron there, and a wing tip to make the package complete. The price was right, and this was a deal, or so I thought. It wasn't that bad looking to me, and certainly not a safety of flight issue in my opinion at that time. So I bought it, thinking I would just take it to an MSC and get it all repaired so it would be a nice clean aircraft the way i like my aircraft to be. Well, I did just that, and got a big lesson in the process. Repairing hangar rash can get expensive in a hurry. With this valuable and expensive education under my belt, I have since paid a bit more attention to what others might consider minor hangar rash when shopping for aircraft.

Caveat emptor...

FWIW and YMMV

[mike_elliott]

Buying the skins might be the easiest part. Finding the right shop to lay down the new skins is important, then a paint job.

 

Williams Airmotive in Kendalville, In. does great reskinning work.

[OR75]

I believe I read somewhere a while ago that there are many threads on MS that would be worth saving to be used as a reference for all Mooney owners. I would agree with that.

This one is not one of them and I wish this thread never came up.

Having said that ...

I think it is worth keeping in mind that the FAA acknowledge that the objective of maintenance is not to keep an aircraft like new. ( ie. you don't need to re skin a wing each time you hit a bug on a nice spring day !) but rather to keep it in structurally sound and in airworthy condition. of course, plenty of room for subjectivity of course.

however, in this case, i would be worried about what has caused those dents and if someone checked if and how the shocks affected the spars stringer etc ... Aluminum is a relatively soft metal. but not that soft and it takes some effort to bend it.

i would be worried whether water can get in the wing tip and if it accumulated and led to corrosion.

a painted plate is not a good sign. Any A&P mechanic (A&P 101) knows that that plate needs to visible and made of stainless steel and the Numbers engraved so that they can identify the plane when ...

[MB65E]

+1 for Williams Airmotive. Awesome talent. I worked with the owner Paul about 10-12 years ago. That day, we/he match drill a center wing skin off a m20c. He recreated a new skin by hand with a drill, Dimpler, sheer, and 2x4. Absolutely amazing!!!All the holes lined up perfectly. I was worried about the radius of the Leading edge. That's what the 2x4 was for. Paul said Pipers and Cessnas use only 2 presses to get the radius. Mooney's need 3 presses! He took three simple hand presses with the 2x4 laid over the soon to be leading edge to get the radius. I rolled up both new and old skins and flew home.

They do a ton of Cessna work our of sheer volume. However, I would trust them to make anything from scratch better than the factory.

-Matt

[N601RX]

There are usually a few elevators on Ebay for a few hundred $. The leading edge dents can probably be worked out to the point their acceptable.  The Left wingtip has a little material missing, but a small doubler skin can probably be shaped and riveted behind it to fill in the hole and smoothed over to look reasonable.  The other option of replacing the 2 wing skins and repaint is going to be expensive.

[DaV8or]

Hopefully, somebody here can hook our friend up with a good used elevator and give him a special MooneySpace discount. Sadly, the I suspect the wing issues are really going to cost him. I guess a way to look at it is this- We should all have a reserve of cash in the bank to pay for unforeseen things like an engine making metal. Just a sad, ugly truth to aircraft ownership. The only difference here is, instead of the OP's engine blowing up, his wings blew up and likely the wings will be cheaper than a new engine.

 

P.S.- The step faring is such a simple, little, easy sheet metal job, you can either do it yourself, or I would suggest persuading whoever does your wing skins to throw that in for free. LASAR can provide you with the specs and pattern. I have yet to make mine. I better get cracking before the FAA finds me!

[DaV8or]

FYI ... From the FAA website ... Required placards ...

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/eea3f2bcfcfeb7a6862577f5004e7a68/$FILE/2A3%20Rev%2052.pdf

Last few pages ...

 

Hmmm... I went through that whole thing and found nothing to do with fuel tank placards, or data plate requirements. Aren't those at issue here?

[mooniac15u]

Those may not be aircraft specific?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Data plates are covered in 45.11 and 45.13 in the FARs.

 

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5;node=14:1.0.1.3.22#14:1.0.1.3.22.2.363.2

[Dale Logsdon]

Are there any mooneys with 32 gal. fuel tanks ?