Which Autopilot?

[Lood]

I'm seriously considering an autopilot for my '67 F and would like some advice, please. My airplane did have the standard PC system, but that was many, many moons ago and everything has been removed over the years, so I'd like to start from scratch.

Costs will dictate in the end and with that in mind, I would probably look at something on which I can add over time. Maybe start out with something like a wing leveler or heading hold and add altitude hold at a later stage. I fly only VFR, so I don't need anything required for IFR .

I know that S-Tec is big, but then I've also came across many who reckon that after sales service basically consists of ending up buying a new component - very expensive.

 

I got this quote from Century:

 

"Good day,

Could you please advise me on the best autopilot option? I fly a 1967 Mooney M20F, serial #670077. I'm looking for a basic system that offers a wing leveler or heading hold. I would also like to have altitude hold, but depending on the costs, I would opt for a system onto which I can add alt hold at a later stage.

Kind regards"

 

"Ok the only Autopilot STC at this time for your Aircraft is the C2000 which is an Two Axis && would have everything you are wanting..  Pricing is $13,289.00 for the complete autopilot with 3 week lead time.. please reply if I can be of further assistance.."

 

I'll also ask S-Tec for a quote on a similar system, but would appreciate any input.

[Bob_Belville]

I have a STEC50 in my '66E and like it fine. I suppose STEC dominates the market for our vintage Mooneys. But you should at least talk to the Brittain folks in Tulsa. Your plane might still have some of the plumbing from the PC wing leveler that might save you money if it can be incorporated. They can advise you on their systems and you might be able to buy something used that they can overhaul.

 

Good luck.

[Marauder]

I have heard good things about the Century 2000. I have an STEC 60-2 that I installed in the late 90s. It has been great. And with the addition of the Aspen Avionics PFD, GPSS roll steering has made it even better.

[Jeff_S]

I have an S-TEC 55 that was installed many moons ago and still works like a charm. It has the GPSS module as well as the altitude pre-select/alerter module, so when coupled to the 480 (or any WAAS navigator) it can almost fly the plane by itself.

[Steve Dawson]

I'm seriously considering an autopilot for my '67 F and would like some advice, please. My airplane did have the standard PC system, but that was many, many moons ago and everything has been removed over the years, so I'd like to start from scratch.

Costs will dictate in the end and with that in mind, I would probably look at something on which I can add over time. Maybe start out with something like a wing leveler or heading hold and add altitude hold at a later stage. I fly only VFR, so I don't need anything required for IFR .

I know that S-Tec is big, but then I've also came across many who reckon that after sales service basically consists of ending up buying a new component - very expensive.

 

I got this quote from Century:

 

"Good day,

Could you please advise me on the best autopilot option? I fly a 1967 Mooney M20F, serial #670077. I'm looking for a basic system that offers a wing leveler or heading hold. I would also like to have altitude hold, but depending on the costs, I would opt for a system onto which I can add alt hold at a later stage.

Kind regards"

 

"Ok the only Autopilot STC at this time for your Aircraft is the C2000 which is an Two Axis && would have everything you are wanting..  Pricing is $13,289.00 for the complete autopilot with 3 week lead time.. please reply if I can be of further assistance.."

 

I'll also ask S-Tec for a quote on a similar system, but would appreciate any input.

 

 

Was that including installation?

[Danb]

When building your new system like many of the above you want the ability to have the Gpss this will be invaluable when tired on that tough approach, plus it holds the line much tighter.

[rbridges]

I highly recommend GPSS if you can incorporate it.  From reading the STEC manual, it appears it's more accurate.  btw, I have an STEC 50 w/alt hold, but I've never used another AP to compare.

[1964-M20E]

Mine has the STEC 30 with ALT hold and no GPSS but I like it.

[Rwsavory]

For VFR flying, I would get the least expensive single axis S-Tec model.  Altitude hold and GPSS are nice to have but not all that useful unless your'e flying a lot of IFR.  Having a basic autopilot to hold a heading will be light years away from having nothing at all, and you can always upgrade it later on if you like.

[Marauder]

Another thing to consider is the direction of the digital autopilot from Avidyne. It is certified for Cirrus and Beech. I believe Mooney is on their list. I haven't researched it too much but do know that they re-use the STEC servos. I met a Cirrus owner at my avionics shop and he was going through the flight tests with it. He said that there is a significant improvement of performance from his stock STEC-55X unit. I would be keeping an eye on it.

[Lood]

@ Steve Dawson: I'm not 100% sure,but I guess not. I did send Century another e-mail to confirm that, among others.

 

Thanks to all for your replies. I'm waiting for a ball park price from S-Tec and I have actually sent Brittain an e-mail about 3 weeks or so ago, but they haven't responded. I'll try again.

[mike_elliott]

Unfortunately, I talked with avidyne about the Mooney STC for their autopilot, and they don't have it on the near term radar. Perhaps if more people would ask them about it, they could perceive a real market. This would be a great option for Vintage mooney's for sure

[rbridges]

Unfortunately, I talked with avidyne about the Mooney STC for their autopilot, and they don't have it on the near term radar. Perhaps if more people would ask them about it, they could perceive a real market. This would be a great option for Vintage mooney's for sure

 

maybe the recent cash influx to Mooney will motivate them, too

[rbridges]

Having a basic autopilot to hold a heading will be light years away from having nothing at all, and you can always upgrade it later on if you like.

 

My CFII told me to have the AP fly straight and level if I ever "got behind" during my approaches.  Not having to hand fly the plane while you're trying to get caught up during an approach is very helpful.

[Marauder]

My CFII told me to have the AP fly straight and level if I ever "got behind" during my approaches.  Not having to hand fly the plane while you're trying to get caught up during an approach is very helpful.

 

It's especially helpful if you get a major re-route while dealing with weather and 5 year saying threatening to urinate in their pants...

[John Pleisse]

I have had an Stec 30. I now have the 55x. They are both great. Be careful with the C2000 price. Does this include needed gyros, trim and installation? It's a smooth AP, but that number seems low for needed gyros and auto trim, the two necessary components to make it more favorable than the Stec 30. If not, then get the Stec 30 for $13-15k. Lood...aren't you in the RSA? Are there Stec dealers there?

[tsuttles]

Lood,

All I can add is know your mission in flying and determine how long you think you will keep the aircraft. I am currently in the same boat as you. I have the PC system currently but I fly IFR and I am getting tired of hand flying anything over an hour. Not to mention if it is that bumpy IFR having to load approaches, communicate... blah blah blah... I am trying to decide weather to piece together a Brittian system that could take per the Tulsa 3years!! to assemble all the parts necessary. I fly M20C so I also know that 17K for the stec that can be installed by March is hard to swallow unless I keep the aircraft for a really long time and get my money out of it. Which I love the bird so that is not far fetched. 

 

Good Luck and let me know if you have any strokes of genius over the subject because I am racking my brain on the daily especially knowing that Stec prices increase the beginning of 2014. 

[jnisley]

Ours has the STEC 30 with ALT hold and GPSS, seven years in service and no complaints whatsoever.

[Lood]

Hi all, below the responses from both Century and S-Tec:

 

Century:

 

"I would also like to confirm that this system is 100% and includes both heading hold and altitude hold, as well as all required hardware, wiring and instruments?"

 

"Yes that pricing is for the Complete Autopilot Kit with everything you will need for flight..  yes you need to contact a shop in your area to ask of the total install time needed." 

 

S-Tec:

 

"

Hello Lodewyk,

 

I believe the system that would best fit your requirements is the basic System 20 (see attached). It is a rate based system consisting of a Turn Coordinator with a built–in Roll computer that would replace your existing turn and bank. It has wing leveler with turn command knob along HI & LO Track modes, which can be coupled to multiple NAV receivers for VOR, LOC, and GPS. The unit also has the capability of tracking the HDG Bug of an HSI or DG if equipped with AP HDG output.

 

The System 20 can be easily upgraded to a System 30 which adds ALT HOLD at a later time. So basically:

 

The System Twenty is a Roll Axis AP consisting of a Turn Coordinator / Roll Computer and a Roll Servo with the capability of Turn Command, HDG hold, and Nav Track.

 

The System Thirty adds a Pitch Computer, Altitude Transducer and Pitch Servo, to provide ALT Hold and Trim Prompting. The AP is then considered a Two Axis system.

 

Please see attached for system description. Pricing below.

List price: $9793.00

Includes complete installation kit

 

The System 20 can be easily upgraded to a System 30 by adding a Pitch computer, Pitch servo, and Pressure Transducer. There is an upgrade kit for this:

Mod kit list price to upgrade to System 30: $6470.00"

[Lood]

@tsuttles: Good question and I also ponder with that at times. However, I just had a very, very expensive engine overhaul done last year and I basically ended up with a brand new engine. I've tested the market, but with the current economy, it is very quiet and I will never get my money back that I put into the overhaul.

Should I decide to sell at a lower price and upgrade to a J - which is the only way I will trade towards, I'll be back to square one, with an airplane unknown to me and with an engine that is already way past half life - at least. It might also be hiding a long list of snags and I'll be starting from scratch.

 

My F suits my mission perfectly and it is sorted out completely, without one snag. My need for the autopilot is that I have another farm that is almost 300nm from where I live and I have to visit there every 4 - 6 weeks. This takes in the region of 5 hours, there and back and many times, I have to do this on the same day. Leave at first light in the morning, work on the other farm and land back home just before sunset.

According to my logbook, 92% of all my flights are done by myself, so it gets pretty boring flying the same route, over and over, all alone.

 

I agree that adding an autopilot will certainly be over capitalizing my airplane, but I probably won't be selling it soon, so I might just as well bite the bullet. First prize would be to just go on and buy my ultimate airplane - an Ovation and I'll be happy forever, but unfortunately, any Ovation is way out of reach at this stage.

[N601RX]

Have you considered getting the Brittain wing leveler back working and upgrading it? Is the Brittian Turn Coordinator still installed?  Even if you have to buy a replacement turn coordinator and 4 servos, this will be the cheapest option by for.  Other than those parts and the disconnect valve, its just a bunch of tubing.

[scottfromiowa]

+1 Get the wing leveler re-installed and add a Accu-Flite heading bug. Should be under $4 grand installed...

I have a complete set of basic back-up wing leveler cans that I bought on Ebay for <100 bucks...

[Martin H]

Whoo Hooo!   I get to spend someone else's money AND give advice!!!!

 

   Hello and what a great topic!

 

   BLUF - Buy the best MODERN Autopilot that you can afford, regardless (NB - did not use the non-word, "irregardless") of your present typical flight "VFR".  

 

Reason being: 

   You want something that will help you get out of trouble if you get into trouble;

   something that can and will be suitable already if / when you chose to fly IFR;

   something that can take advantage of your present panel setup or future upgrades;

   when you go to sell it (AND you will at some point), you want it to be inticing, not repelling for fear of what it needs, as opposed to what it has; 

   You do NOT save money or time from flight getting it upgraded piece meal.   Get it all done at one shot, at one time, for one price, while the tech has it open one time and finishes for you.   Then (in theory) you don't have to worry about it again.

 

   Martin

[scottfromiowa]

In theory...