Wings Credit for Mooneyspace

[201er]

I was disappointed by the lack of educational value of a Wings talk about VFR into IMC I attended. It wasn't interesting and I learned nothing from it. I recall many heated and interesting discussions about this and many other topics on here that have been far more memorable and influential on my decision making. So I just wanted to commend Mooneyspace and say that participation in this board is more deserving of "wings credit" than many of the sponsored courses.

[Marauder]

I think a poll is in order! Seriously, I too find the discussions here much more significant since they are Mooney specific.

[ncdmtb]

I have learned a lot from the interaction on this board with other members. This is the "first place" I come to, to learn more about flying (my Mooney)!

[N33GG]

As an instructor (CFII/MEI/AGI/IGI), I am supposed to support and promote the Wings Program. But when I really look at it, it seems to be another example of government trying to do something in a big government manner, and it just misses the mark. And the sad part is that a program like Wings could be excellemt, but the delivery of the current program just misses the target, IMHO.

Sigh...

[N33GG]

And further, I agree with the OP, in that this and other forums are incredible sources of information, debate, and learning. With decades of flying and thousands of hours in my log books, I continue to learn a great deal right here at MooneySpace, right along with the newest pilots.

Thanks to everyone!

[aviatoreb]

I was disappointed by the lack of educational value of a Wings talk about VFR into IMC I attended. It wasn't interesting and I learned nothing from it. I recall many heated and interesting discussions about this and many other topics on here that have been far more memorable and influential on my decision making. So I just wanted to commend Mooneyspace and say that participation in this board is more deserving of "wings credit" than many of the sponsored courses.

 

The COPA forum (the forum for Cirrus owners) published a careful study where they documented that active COPA participants enjoyed a safety statistic regarding incidents that was 4 times better than a general public of Cirrus owners who were non COPA participants.

 

Now such a thing is a correlation study, so it is unable to split hairs to decide if folks who are likely to spend the time to participate in a forum related to becoming more knowledgable about their airplane are already the types to make good decisions, or if the participation itself has a positive effect, and likely the truth is a combination.

 

In any case, folks lets educate each other.  And be that bug in each others ear when it comes time to make those difficult aeronautical decisions, to hopefully make good ones.

[mike_elliott]

As an instructor (CFII/MEI/AGI/IGI), I am supposed to support and promote the Wings Program. But when I really look at it, it seems to be another example of government trying to do something in a big government manner, and it just misses the mark. And the sad part is that a program like Wings could be excellemt, but the delivery of the current program just misses the target, IMHO.

Sigh...

 

Ill agree and disagree here. I have found that it is very dependent on the particular FAA region and the quality of the particular FAAsteam reps giving the presentations and developing the content. The wings program is a great way to keep current, stay on top of current issues and hot topics with the FAA, but in reality, Volunteers, like myself, give the presentations, and for the most part, not the FAA employees. Some of the FAA content is excellent, some not so much. Some of the regions allow the FAASteam reps to develop content they are SME's in, some are a bit more authoritative and don't.

Its a great program that is under constant revision and in my opinion, one of the better ways the FAA is spending money for GA vs. against it. Part of the program is defining the target. If we let them have at it, they decide that because GA hasn't kept pace with reducing accidents like the military and commercial, then the CFI's are to blame and are re-writing the PTS for private, Instrument and CFI. If you want to read an excellent post on this subject, see Rod Machado's comments on the new PTS NPR 

http://www.rodmachado.com/Temp/ACS_Proposal_Response.php

 

What the FAA and the committee that developed this NPR miss is that commercial and military training is not only provided for, the pilots are paid for it. For you and I to train to these standards lack economic substance. The wings program tries to address this somewhat with free training, and they try to focus on areas of concern. Brian Neville is a good guy trying to do things right, within the constraints of his new bosses. It was just a shame what happened to Randy Babbit, an administrator who had GA's interest at heart.

 

YMMV

[Bennett]

One of our local flight schools : San Carlos Flight Center, runs a dynamic Wings program on Wednesday nights and Saturday afternoons. These are always well attended, mostly by pilots holding advanced ratings, and they do a simultaneous web broadcast for members. The topics range widely from the basic to the esoteric, and the instructors for these seminars come from a wide variety of aviators, mechanics. physicians, and ATC controllers, etc. I even taught a few courses about traveling to Mexico. I have never attended one of these sessions without learning something I did not know previously, or in my old age, something I had forgotten. Wings is the "formality" to bring in us pilots. The after session discussions between instructors and pilots are often even more informative. In my opinion, Wings, as presented by SCFC is a most worthwhile endeavor, and I really look forward to the sessions, attending at least 12-14 each year. I am sorry that AOPA will stop their Summit conventions as their seminars have been very informative over the years. An aviation education should not be reduced to BFRs. I think continuing aviation leads not only to safety, but more enjoyable flying experiences. I check Moonyspace because of the serious discussions of techniques, and the variety of approaches. I recall the old Chinese expression: "Surely if I walk with two men, I will learn something"

[mike_elliott]

Of all the incidents reported on the NTSB last year (Tampa FSDO) only a couple involved pilots that participated in the wings program, according to the FAA Safety Team manager here. He also indicated this was true in other regions.

Take it for what it is, but it does appear wings participants are less likely to be involved in safety incidents, most likely because they are safety conscience pilots to begin with. Those that are not usually cannot "find the time" or be drug to a wings event.

[aviatoreb]

Of all the incidents reported on the NTSB last year (Tampa FSDO) only a couple involved pilots that participated in the wings program, according to the FAA Safety Team manager here. He also indicated this was true in other regions.

Take it for what it is, but it does appear wings participants are less likely to be involved in safety incidents, most likely because they are safety conscience pilots to begin with. Those that are not usually cannot "find the time" or be drug to a wings event.

 

I appreciate the suggestion that taking wings makes a person less likely to have an incident but reported as the manager did, the statement is useless.  For example if few people took the wings courses, it would even be possible that the number of incidents by wings takers was higher than you would think even though there were few incidents by wings takers...it could be that taking wings makes you more dangerous! (doubtful...I am just making a statistics argument).

 

The question is if the number of wings taker incidents is statistically significantly PROPORTIONALLY less than the population as a whole.

[mike_elliott]

I see the same 30-40 faces at wings seminars, Erik, so you may have a statistical point. I don't know what the pilot population is here, but certainly is much larger. I doubt if it is 4000, however.

Using the old, invalid argument "If it saves just one life....", I still am glad I haven't heard of an issue with those faces I do see routinely. I am more convinced it has to do with the safety mindedness of wings participants  than the content of the seminars themselves.

[Marauder]

Of all the incidents reported on the NTSB last year (Tampa FSDO) only a couple involved pilots that participated in the wings program, according to the FAA Safety Team manager here. He also indicated this was true in other regions. Take it for what it is, but it does appear wings participants are less likely to be involved in safety incidents, most likely because they are safety conscience pilots to begin with. Those that are not usually cannot "find the time" or be drug to a wings event.

A better validation of the Wings program would be to determine whether those pilots who attend them aren't just a part of the pilot population who routinely takes advantage of recurrent training. I prefer IPCs over just making sure I meet the requirements to keep me legally current.

[N601RX]

I've been to a few, and one was better than the other 2 or 3 I attended. Here is one of the best online ones I have found. It is very helpful for anyone going into Destin, Fl. Very well done.

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=47&sID=278&preview=true

[1964-M20E]

Down here in New Orleans I've attended a few and I've flown up to 150 miles to go to them as well.  The seminars are pretty good overall.  When compared to seminars I have attended for other organizations they are comparable as far as quality.

[201er]

Yesterday I went to a different Wings presentation. I think it was called the "Weather Challenge" and is run by the AOPA ASI. It was excellent! This is the sort of event you'd expect to pay money to go to. It was a huge audience, at least 200 people. It covered an extensive array of weather topics and quizzes. And I didn't just walk away with one new thing I learned but many. This presentation is making its way around the country and I highly recommend it to any pilot.

[Seth]

Maybe a MooneySpacer can create a presentation, submit it to the WINGS program so it can actually recieve credit, and then we can set up some fly ins around the country for a few people to give the presentation and many of us can recieve credit.

 

-Seth

[201er]

You mean this? http://www.mapasafety.com/proficiency

[Jamie]

Yesterday I went to a different Wings presentation. I think it was called the "Weather Challenge" and is run by the AOPA ASI. It was excellent! This is the sort of event you'd expect to pay money to go to. It was a huge audience, at least 200 people. It covered an extensive array of weather topics and quizzes. And I didn't just walk away with one new thing I learned but many. This presentation is making its way around the country and I highly recommend it to any pilot.

 

Ah. I wondered about that. I figured it was just a commercial sales pitch or something. It's coming to Huntsville 10/1.

[mike_elliott]

Maybe a MooneySpacer can create a presentation, submit it to the WINGS program so it can actually recieve credit, and then we can set up some fly ins around the country for a few people to give the presentation and many of us can recieve credit.

 

-Seth

Seth, it is easier than that. Just ping any of your local FAASteam reps and let them know what you would like to see them give as a presentation. If you are or know of a Subject matter expert in the area you would like to see presented, they can set it up for wings credit. A directory of FAASteam reps can be found HERE

 

For example, a doctor may want to give a presentation on hypoxia, or common over the counter drug effects and their relationship to flying. An attorney might want to give a presentation on what to say or not say during a ramp check, etc.

I have done some on icing for the Great lakes region, and will probably put together a few more soon. The FAA also has an extensive library of decent presentations available.

 

 

 

It can even be a webinar.

[jlunseth]

I have alot of Wings credits and many "Phases" of Wings.  I like the program.  What people need to understand is that the seminars are accredited by Wings, but are actually given by many different local presenters, some good, some still working on their presentation skills.  The one's I have found most interesting, have been those taught by people with a great deal of experience, able to go beyond the usual FAA pablum and talk about cutting edge information and technologies.  It's a good program, the quality of the content can vary from presentation to presentation.