Leaderboard

Don, this is an excellent idea. I just called them but they said that those types of questions are referred to a specialist and they needed my name and callback number. So, taking your advice about not giving my name and aircraft number out I gave them yours. Do you mind letting me know what they say? Just kidding! They did say they would call me back later today, though. I know they’ll find out anyway when I turn in the bill of sale so I’m not worried about being anonymous. They were also able to see my “blocked” caller ID so I get the feeling that if they want to find me they will. Thanks again for the suggestion.

That is what I was thinking - could he have incorrectly set the altimeter? He was way low way far out. That said - what the heck was he doing flying in that in the first place? But once he was there near KGAI in below mins conditions - what the heck was he doing trying the approach anyway - were all the nearby airports below min too? KFDK is very nearby and has better approaches, a bigger airport environment, tower and multiple runways. Or heck - Dulles and BWI in a pinch - or just fly somewhere else entirely but I do not know the fuel status. I am a Professor in a department of electrical engineering and several of my colleagues are power transmission specialists. I was talking to one of the profs who is also a pilot - and we were just talking how amazingly unlikely this accident was a survived outcome. First - how many controlled flight into terrain accidents in night low ifr conditions are survived. Almost none. Obviously he found a nice springy metal tower with cables that arrested them from 100kts to zero in short order like a carrier landing but maybe more abrupt. I wonder if he had airbags. But here are the miracles - -they found a springy tower instead of a hard building or the ground or a hillside or a big tree. -the springy tower actually caught them at the right spot so they were decelerated sufficiently but not too strongly to break the humans inside but not too springy to bounce them off so they would fall backwards 100ft to the ground. -here is the part that amazed the power transmission engineer I was talking too - he told me exactly the voltage and capacity of that specific tower just by looking at it and he declared it a miracle that the entire airplane structure didn't just melt/dissolve/catch on fire - I mean aluminum on fire not to mention fuel - somehow it didn't arc etc. Yeah the birds landing not grounded thing but they are tiny plus dont touch the tower structure itself. -the tower didn't collapse in which case they would have been mechanically crushed and electrically fried simultaneously. I would guess if this was a computer simulation you could crash this airplane a thousand times and none of them would end up with this outcome - even if you crash it into the tower - something lined up just right to make everything work. This is what collapsed towers look like - an incident of an ice storm overloading their weight in 1996 I think near Montreal. https://www.inmr.com/looking-back-on-the-great-ice-storm-of-1998/ So overall a miracle these guys are alive and also the weirdest survived accident we are likely to ever see.

I think he was talking about Dan Bass:

Mooney M20J Service and Maintenance Manual (#123 December 1998) uploaded to the documents section and here. Have fun. Mooney Service Manuel M20J Vol. 1 of 2.pdf Mooney Service Manuel M20J Vol. 2 of 2.pdf

I read a report this evening that said their worst injury was from the cold. Go Mooney! Love that steel cage! And one-piece wing!

After all this, the cabin and baggage doors still functional!

When I was based in Baltimore, I did a lot of flights to GAI including dozens of instrument approaches in actual IMC. Always said that it was just a matter of time before someone hit those power lines. I just don’t see how anyone survived this, much less two people and that nobody on the surface was injured or killed.

YIKES she’ll still fly it’s a Moody!!

If your primary motivation is the tach is going bad, have it overhauled and buy I don’t know $4,500 worth of fuel

Wouldn't matter on an LPV approach. Follow the needles to the ground. Would have crashed on the runway if all the needles were centered, not 1-2 miles short.

Not necessarily related to our Mooney’s, but I just installed a PAR200B radio/intercom in my Citabria. I chose this radio because of the panel space limitations in the Citabria. The radio is remotely mounted which saved space. Of course I knew the PS engineering intercom would be good but I have been presently surprised at the quality of the radio. It sound better than the radio in my GTN650. - end of my product review- Lee

If the STCs have any value, wouldn’t it be simpler to reverse engineer them and apply for a new STC?

Many are saying that the probability of an engine issue in cruise are lower so the worry of LIFR enroute is low. Perhaps. But I have had exactly one issue in my flying career and it was exactly that - I had a complete engine failure at altitude enroute, but with altitude and VMC in my favor I made an uneventful dead stick landing at a runway that was maybe 15 miles from my location of failure. Even before that issue I would cancel a flight if it was LIFR enroute, but now, even more so.

On the way there .... I wish what they know now would find it's way into the next generation of engine analyzers for on-board warning https://youtu.be/blJhSQQNfn0

I thought about this too. Even if he had an incorrect baro - he still should have been on the GP to (incorrect) DH closer to the runway. If he was doing the LNAV he should not have been lower than the approach mins for that type (980 msl)

You can zoom in on his gi275 ADI and see the airplane pitch oscillate a degree or two. Doesn’t look like altitude is really changing but id bet it’s annoying and uncomfortable.

The alt setting had a spread of .13 on a period spanning 6 hours before and after the accident. That equate to 130ft, no? I don't think there was any strange phenomenon. Also, as stated earlier, LPV doesn't rely on the BARO for vertical guidance. This assuming that the pilot was flying it with a WAAS GPS, which supposedly he had in the AC.

If you are considering two CGR30's, you should consider a single JPI EDM 900. It clobbers two holes, but frees up a bunch of panel space too. Probably for the same cost.

Based on this complete blog, reading all the insight, planning or lack there of and all other recommendations seems to make no difference when the pilot fails to make correct decisions. The weather that day was no secret the pilot also had a good look at it in real life since this was a return flight. Another BLACK EYE pitched our way. I agree this is a terrible look for GA most of us on this sight follow the rules, regulations airman decision making proper maintenance of our planes and so on. My main thoughts although are for the pilot and passenger to have a good recovery.

I also note that this was this pilot's second flight of the day - returning from West Chester, NY. Flew up, departing at 8:40 am arriving at 11 am. See post with Flight Aware log. Then starts back at 3 pm. Long day, on top of the weather. I am wondering if fatigue may have been a factor.

You could say that about areas of corrosion found anywhere on the airframe....and it'd be true as there is no question there are many aircraft out there flying around with undetected corrosion. It's only when one has verifiable structural failure or said corrosion is discovered that we take notice. On this forum we've literally seen tons of planes condemned that were operating beautifully just days before they became salvage. They would have continued in service for quite sometime with no one the wiser if the rot was not discovered. To each there own...my take is if 1) If you have a bird with hybrid weights that show no signs deterioration, I'd say go fly without hesitation. 2) If you have a bird with hybrid weights that show cracks, bulges and obvious signs of deterioration, I'd say it’d be a good idea to consider not only the risks but if your understanding of the risks is adequate. Maybe limit the aircraft to pattern work until a solution is found. 3) If you've a bird with hybrid weights that show cracks, bulges and obvious signs of deterioration...and you've posted detailed images on the internet of the cracked and bulged weights that match the the images and definition of the unairworthy condition put forth by the factory in the the SB, I'd say revisit #2 with greater vigor and consideration.

Hi Folks. I'm about 2100hrs on my engine. Seems fine, burns maybe a qt every 4-5 hours but good compressions, not making metal. Essentially no issues. That being said, I think it is time to start looking for overhaul shops. I don't think my pocket could afford the factory new options as the TSIO 550G is hovering around $115k--crazy numbers... So I think I am heading the overhaul route and was looking for whatever wisdom/recommendations the group might share.

Carl & Ann Sharon here at Houston Tank Specialists/Houston Mooney Services. We have come up with a way to do two of the fun things we love to do! Fly in our Mooney and Cruise the seas! This was the cruise we announced at the Mooney Max in June. This is a Royal Caribbean Cruise. They are one of the elegant cruise lines! Not a booze cruise! The cruise leaves out of Galveston Texas and ends in Los Angeles by way of the Panama Canal. This will be an exciting way to see a piece of history we have all read about! These prices may only hold through mid-December. *** We have an update, these prices will hold until December 22! These prices are about $500 below the advertised rates!!!!! Once leaving Galveston, the itinerary will be stops in: Georgetown Grand Cayman, Cartagena Colombia, Colon Panama, San Juan Del Sur Nicaragua, Puerto Vallarta Mexico and ending in Los Angeles! Check this out! Talking Mooneys and cruising! What could be better! Flyer 4 - Panama Canal 2023[77344].pdf

I believe it's a mismatch between the PFD and MFD

I use 3 CO detectors. I have a Sensorcon, a panel mounted Guardian, and I recently got a Lightspeed Delta Zulu headset. The Delta Zulu has built in CO monitoring. The Sensorcon is a great product with great support. They are still offering 20% off through a discount code of: Aircraft20222 That is three 2's at the end, I'm not sure why they did that.... Just go to Sensorcon I have been using the Delta Zulu for the past 20hrs or so of flying. It has a few great features, one of witch is the CO detector. If anyone is interested in buying a Delta Zulu or any other Lighspeed product you can through this link. Dan's Lightspeed Link It's my Affiliate link that will give me a small cut of the sale. No discount, but you would be helping put gas in my Mooney! My main recommendation is that you have a digital detector. Not the color changing spots. The home detectors are much better than the spots, but not that great for GA. I would do a minimum of a portable that measures parts per million, like a Sensorcon. After that I think having 2 detectors makes a lot of sense. Often we don't know when a digital detector isn't working properly unless we can check it with a second one. Cheers, Dan

When running a tank dry your wing gauges will stop moving for a while before you actually run out of gas. They stop being accurate under 6 to 7 gallons and stop indicating anything. Then usually you have another 30 minutes give or take until you run the tank completely dry. The g1000s should show it at 0 when the tank runs out of fuel. My engine starts to stumble about 30 seconds to a minute after my G3X fuel gauge jumps from 1 gallon to 0.

Odd question because they don't provide the same information: The wing gauges are calibrated to tell you how much fuel is in the tanks ON the Ground (where nose is pitched up) The G1000 gauges are calibrated to tell you how much fuel is in the tanks in Level Flight Thus they should not agree, but close - but both are accurate, usually very accurate else they need attention.

Well, that’s basically the current state of events in a nutshell.

You could put a circuit breaker on every single piece of electrical gear. I used that empty real-estate to mount the iPad using a RAM ball mount.

I first became aware of spring clamps on US made Automobiles in the early 70’s If you use them buy the special pliers with the cut outs for them to fit, makes it a lot easier. Same thing on Amazon is $10 more, they have cut outs on the ends too. https://www.autotoolworld.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-1773627-Pliers-Hose-Clamp-8_p_221956.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JacBhC0ARIsAIxybyMF1UdzxNS-fbawASoOgp_sIOZYyUGz2fTAKa1b7ZzQcLHPmHzlOjEaAtd2EALw_wcB Different pliers for the flat clamps, the baby Continental uses ring AKA wire type. But my 1946 Cessna with its C-85 engine has spring clamps on its push rod seals, so they have been on Certified aircraft since the 1940’s. Not sure that gives you justification to put them on a Lycoming, I think it depends on the manual, if it says install worm clamps I think not, if it says install clamps, then maybe.

Ding ding. Not much white stuff in Glades

I use a ForeFlight Sentry plus. The Sentry also has a built-in CO detector. I've verified it works when on the ground getting blasted by exhaust from another plane, plus it gives me WAAS GPS & ADS-B In.

A good bit. Try multiple snaps a lowered powered plane. And energy is proportional to velocity squared. So even a small amount of speed reduction greatly reduces the energy a lot

Well.... Moody does accurately describe how I feel when I don't get to fly....

Agree with A. It’s pretty unusual for an airplane engine to crap out at cruise, and if you have enough fuel to reach better weather in one direction or another, this doesn’t sound especially risky to me. It would be far riskier to depart with low ceilings for a 5nm radius around the airport and then fly 300 miles of CAVU than to depart VFR and fly over 300 miles of low ceilings with a conservative approach at the other end.

kVs… That is pretty eye opening! -a-

There is no news anymore, just propaganda.

I would guess the tower and wires were completely invisible in the dark in the fog. I know there is a beacon light on towers but in the fog I bet it just wasn't there.

Can’t imagine hung up like that scared injured progressively hypothermic and probably in shock.

yes, inside a cyclone

Another interesting thing was on that audio from ATC. There was a plane that the controller called out at being at 2,300 with an altimeter setting at 29.44. The pilot responded that he was at 3,000. Can a strange atmospheric condition exist where barometric pressure can be different in a small geographical area? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The altitude alerts were issued after the "frequency changed approved" So even though he might have been moved, ATC was still watching and doing their best.

from what I have personally experienced, the oscillations only happen in IAS and VNAV modes, not VS

Often, we have the opportunity to hear first hand from the person behind the controls…. To see what they saw… So there is… 1) a perfectly preventable situation…. Or else we wouldn’t have the IR…. 2) More important… something went wrong with the really well planned flight… How do we get that person to describe where the wheels fell off… in this situation… Many hints above… all very valuable to avoid similar situations… But, only one person probably knows all of the details… Open invite for the pilot to join us here on MS! Best regards, -a-

Hi gang - been a long time since I posted. Aircraft is owned by an entity and a few shares, usually 3 to 5 are owned any time be different people. Kind of like a club Mooney. I have flown in this aircraft before and know two of the previous owners. I’ll grab the ATC live link and post it later. They were on the GPS 14 approach to GAI on the way from HPN (White Plains NY). A Cheyenne ahead of them went missed, diverted to a nearby airport with an ILS and landed safely. The power line tower hit is left of centerline and well below glide path. The two occupants were rescued about 7 hours after impact and taken to the hospital with serious injuries. They were in communication with fire/rescue via cell phone. Glad they are alive. -Seth

I paid for the analysis of the metal of my blocks, paid to have a CNC drawing, chose the material to be used -- which was FAA approved, evaluated the CNC results and had it compared to my original. I'd say I complied with the spirit of OPP. I happened to work with a resource who had connections to get this done. Others who participated also paid for the drawing and analysis of the block and chose the new block's material. That was for my old B. AS a note, I have Lasars blocks in my C... -Don

Hi All I am Dennis Pendergast and the owner of Sky Avionics in Sanford, FL. Our strengths are with Aspen, Avidyne, PS Engineering, Electronics International and Genesys (S-Tec). I'm sure that we will learn as much as we might contribute here!

You will probably need a prescription to get it. I refill mine for less than that.

I am just going to put it out there that if the OAT were to ever hit that, I am packing and moving further south.