Perfect Landing Tip

[Piloto]

Many new Mooney owners have found some difficulties on making good landings on Mooneys even if they go by the book. These are typically pilots transitioning from high wing planes. On many occasions the plane bounces or porpoises with sometimes causing prop strikes. These incidents are more prone to happen during gusty or crosswinds conditions. 

Unlike the C172 the Mooney wing stands very close to the ground due to its short legged landing gear. As the wing with full flaps extended comes close to the ground during flare an air cushion is created causing lift at very low speeds. When the tires contact the ground there is maximum cushion lift thus causing the plane to lift (bounce) unless you have very low speed. But even if you come with very low speed (70kts or less) a 15kt gust can easily lift the plane up and cause bouncing. The problem gets worse if the there is crosswind gusts (10kts). During crosswind gusts the plane will be riding on the air cushion at low speed with minimum rudder controllability causing the plane to weather vane into the wind with the possibility of drifting outside the runway. 

The solution to the above is to simply RAISE THE FLAPS DURING FLARE. As the flaps are retracted there is no air cushion build up thus the tires will contact the ground with no possibility of bounce even during gusty conditions. In a crosswind condition the plane will firmly settle on the ground with less possibility of weather vane effect, particularly on icy runways.

When the flaps are raised during flare the plane will pitch up slightly and sink gently. This assures that only the mains will contact ground first. You need to have the flaps extended during approach to improve visibility over the panel, particularly on the long body models or if you are short. The above procedure is handy for those planes that do not have electric trim. With the above procedure you can also come on short final at higher speed (80kts) thus better controllability and use less runway during roll out. 

Practice the above for all landings and you will be bragging about your landing skills.

Jose

 

 

  

[Hank]

     Crosswinds are easily handled by flap extension. I drop mine to Takeoff on downwind, then only adjust on final as needed to maintain glideslope and speed. I almost never use full flaps. This worked fine landing on 14, with winds 180@20G28, and it works fine even when the wind is calm. Yes, I have a short-body C model. The hard part is maintaining the flare while speed bleeds off, but with proper speed and slope control, it's not too long. [85 mph on final and 80 mph over the numbers works great.]

[defrkm20j]

Raising the flaps during your landing flare is a bad technique. You should focus on the landing and not fiddle around with any switches .

The secret is to trim the airplane properly and fly the correct speed. We fly our M20J out of a 1600ft concrete strip. The secret is have abeam thr in the downwing flaps for T/O turning base gear down, turning final full flaps and Vref.

Never force the plane to touch down. Better to Go Around if the flare is too long.

Takes practise but is no rocket science

 

Axel ( short field specialist)

[TurboExec]

I find when flying solo or with one other passenger I have to put a case of oil in the baggage area to help shift the cg back.  It makes the round out much easier and landings seem to be smoother.

[Tommy]

I can see the gear comes up instead of flaps with this technique.

[201er]

AOA

[gsxrpilot]

16 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I can see the gear comes up instead of flaps with this technique.

That's a Bonanza problem, not a Mooney problem. There is an entire panel or more between the flap switch and gear switch in a Mooney.

[gsxrpilot]

The secret to good landings in a Mooney is pretty much like any other piston single. Bring it into ground effect, power off, and just hold it off the runway as long as possible. The effort to keep the plane flying, will ensure a smooth transition to the mains. I can get my 252 down in 1000 ft under full flaps. With strong crosswinds, I prefer no flaps and just let it float until it won't float any longer. 

I always retract flaps immediately on touchdown. That helps to firmly plant the wheels and improves braking if required. 

When flying formation and landing side by side on long runways, we come over the numbers at 90 knots (no flaps), roll it on the mains and use aerodynamic breaking by holding the nose wheel off until slowed sufficiently. Rarely are brakes needed at all for these landings.

All methods of landing work equally well without any bouncing or porpoising. With short legs and low wings, the Mooney will float. The secret is to let it float until it can't float any further. Then roll it on.

[rbridges]

that's exactly what I do except for the flaps.  I usually "clean up" after I come off the runway.  Flying and letting the plane land itself has made my landings much smoother.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

That's a Bonanza problem, not a Mooney problem. There is an entire panel or more between the flap switch and gear switch in a Mooney.

Never say never!  If you want to make sure it doesn't float, throw out the speed brakes.

Clarence

[DAVIDWH]

Ditto on the speed brakes.

Getting tired of those annoying squeaks coming into the cockpit from those mains touching down.

[PTK]

I think since we are not talking about landing the space shuttle or an Airbus I think the secret to good landings in the Mooney is to get away from thinking "flare" and think about the concept of "transition" instead. We don't flare a Mooney on landing. We transition it through ground effect into a power off stall with the stall warning chirping as the mains touch down. 

It is possible (fun!) to flare it before this transition to ground effect. But these are two distinct phases. I think coming in hot thinking flare it to land is asking for trouble. As is coming in (dragging it in) behind the curve with power in a flare.

[Yetti]

half flaps keeps from pushing all that air down onto the ground.   Only time I use full flaps is when I screw up the approach and am way high.  Half flaps means you are in a better position for go around.

[201er]

Ok, here's the real secret:

To make consistently good landings, fly by AOA.

To make perfect greasers, in addition to the above, put baggage and people in the back. 

[Bennett]

Just a comment or two: The CYA 100 AOA works well, but I adjust my speed just before touchdown by my estimated weight at that time. At the end of a longer trip I touch down 3 or 4 knots slower than a short flight starting with full fuel.

I've made many "roll on" landings by using speed brakes. The control button is on the yoke, and the electric versions are quick to deploy, or retract.

If I am just a bit fast on final, I will open my cowl flaps fully which add just a bit more drag.

I normally keep a good deal of gear in the baggage compartment, shifting the CG aft which helps with the flare (and cruise speed) I generally fly alone, so this really helps.


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[KLRDMD]

Minimizing energy at touchdown is an important concept. That requires full flaps. In gusty crosswinds, less than full flaps are fine but I see no reason to not use full flaps on the vast majority of landings. If you need to keep just a *touch* of power to make good landings, I can live with that. Just keep the speed appropriate to minimize energy at touchdown.

[Hank]

I discovered flying a friend's F that Full Flaps are really good!

But in my C, I use Takeoff Flaps and add more on final if I need to; sometimes I will remove what I add on short final, after all my Owners Manual say Flaps--Full or as desired. Full flaps are pretty much reserved for those rare days with no wind . . . And I'm pretty good at hitting the third stripe on my 3000' runway in this configuration, with the stall horn chirping.

[Schinderhannes]

On 1/3/2009 at 3:38 AM, defrkm20j said:

Raising the flaps during your landing flare is a bad technique. You should focus on the landing and not fiddle around with any switches .

 

The secret is to trim the airplane properly and fly the correct speed. We fly our M20J out of a 1600ft concrete strip. The secret is have abeam thr in the downwing flaps for T/O turning base gear down, turning final full flaps and Vref.

 

 

Never force the plane to touch down. Better to Go Around if the flare is too long.

 

 

Takes practise but is no rocket science

 

 

 

 

 

Axel ( short field specialist)

 

Axel - If my memory is correct "RK" was the first and only Mooney I ever flew in before buying our M20c. She used to be based in EDRG (2000ft grass strip with tall pines on one side). The former owner flew her frequently at max growth, and I can testify she is a real short field machine. Coincidently the former owners name was Axel too. "RK" made me lust after Mooneys for many years and it took "only" 20 years and 7 different airplanes until owning one myself...

 

 

[M20F-1968]

I was introduced to landing with speed brakes about 6 months ago.  This was in a crosswind situation of about 20 kts.  Full flaps, speed brakes and gear out carrying more power increases wing loading, makes the plane feel heavier and more stable.  The landing was good.  Since then I accidentally did a couple of landings with speed brakes and those landing were equally as good for the same reasons.  It seems that you should do the final approach with the speed brakes out to stabilize the plane in that configuration.  I would not change the configuration near the ground as you may not time it right or you may not get exactly what you expect.  The same is true retracting flaps in the flair.  You may retract then just a little too high resulting in loos of lift higher than you would like. (I admit that I have not tried this procedure, but have heard this concern from experienced owners and a former Moonet test pilot).  Does anyone used the speed brake method routinely.  (I have a 68 F, well really a 68 J).

John Breda

[MB65E]

I wish I had more flap some times. Ground flaps would be great. lol. Or the barn doors in the old cessnas. Notice how those are no longer available with newer production. Darn!! 

No flap Landings work well, but the approach is flatter, and I'm not sure the lower approach angle justifies anything. I'd fly the entire approach with boards if I needed to. I wouldn't advertise touching anything on the runway or before touchdown. 

I like the theory of the dumping flaps idea, but it's a hard sell to most here. 

This was a really old thread brought back to life!!

-Matt

 

[Bartman]

I was out flying this afternoon and since it was such a beautiful day and maybe the last mild weekend of the year it seemed like EVERY PILOT in the world was out doing touch an go's.

Anyway, we went for lunch and back and I tried the dump the flaps technique twice and found it useful, it was not something I would want to do on every landing.  I can see using this on a short field, too fast, or maybe even windy, but not something I would do all of the time.  I can see it being useful but only to make up for less than optimal technique or certain conditions.

[gsxrpilot]

I'll agree with Bart and completely disagree with those who keep saying a Mooney has to be on speed, and in a certain configuration, to land or go around. These are very simple airplanes and a half decent pilot should be able to safely and smoothly land them from any number of speeds, numbers, and configurations.

Another pilot on this board was riding with me the other day. He was doing the landing from the right seat. There was a Cessna in front of us and we were expecting to land number two behind it. We hadn't been "cleared to land" by the tower but were listening as the tower gave instructions to turn off at one taxiway after another. But the Cessna just kept slowly rolling by one after another. I suggested we clean it up and tell the tower we'll go around. We were only about 1/4 mile final. So he cleaned us up, full power, and told tower, we're going around. The controller, obviously frustrated, said, No, you've got plenty of separation, cleared to land. I just said, "my airplane." Chop the power, gear down, speed brakes out, full flaps. We came straight down and were off the runway before the Cessna.

I could have easily said "unable" but there was no need. These little airplanes are simple to land and will do so in lots of different ways, safely and smoothly.


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[eman1200]

1 minute ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'll agree with Bart and completely disagree with those who keep saying a Mooney has to be on speed, and in a certain configuration, to land or go around. These are very simple airplanes and a half decent pilot should be able to safely and smoothly land them from any number of speeds, numbers, and configurations......... These little airplanes are simple to land and will do so in lots of different ways, safely and smoothly.


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in my one and only hour of dual a couple of weeks ago in a J, I felt like the plane landed the same as every other plane I've been in.  I guess where one may see a difference is when you're not on the numbers, but after all the 'hype' I expected a bigger challenge.  and by the way, 100dw/90b/80f and full flaps.  there weren't any winds to speak of, so I'll let u know how I do once I see some gusts or xwinds.

[Bartman]

eman

I will say that landing a Mooney well, and landing a Mooney fast do not go together.  I know from personal experience that if I am too fast in the flare, then I typically will float about 100 feet down the runway for every knot too fast. Flare 10 Kts over with full flaps and you will float 1000 feet or so in my bird, but the Cessna and Piper trainers were much more forgiving. What gets your attention and the origin of the Mooney landing reputation, is when you try to force it on the runway too early by lowering the nose.  

DO NOT try this at your home drome

[carqwik]

You can land a Mooney at any speed...just depends if you have enough runway left or want to use the plane again.  Take your pick...