glafaille Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 Those of you interested in this sort of adenture flying might like to read about the adventures of Max Conrad. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 I can certainly understand the reluctance to do such a flight in a piston single. But personally, I'd do it in a minute and intend to do it one day. Anything can happen, but preparation can mitigate a lot of the risk. I just did 4700 nm in my Mooney with several bits of that over cold water and very inhospitable terrain. We just got home and I'm pretty sure I could refuel and do it again. The airplane never complained once. 3 Quote
khedrei Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 10 hours ago, acpartswhse said: no I dont think that's even a little bit accurate. There was someone who rented a Warrior from our school and he ditched it in the lake a mile off shore from Toronto island after running one tank dry and not having the common sense to troubleshoot with the other tank being almost full. Him and his son were able to get out onto the wing and wait for the police boat to come get them. Rumour has it if he didnt go back into the airplane for his laptop he wouldn't have even got his feet wet. I think that took longer than getting out a life raft. Water is water whether it's the ocean or the lake. And I doubt a Mooney sinks any faster than a Warrior. 2 Quote
cliffy Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Last time I crossed the North Atlantic I was flying a 727- don't intend to do it any other way. Going to the South Pacific soon but we'll have four burning underneath the wings on that one ! :-) :-) Quote
N9201A Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 6:10 AM, khedrei said: Reviving an old thread here... Do people do these trips often? And do people seek company from curious individuals in the community. I figured it would always be nice to have another pilot on board. If so, I have lots of spare time this summer and would love to take a trip like this to learn more about it. Maybe I will work up to doing it myself one day. If anyone knows anyone.... I have met two people who done a transatlantic round trip from the US: One alone in a J and one with his wife in an F. Personally, my engine always seems to sputter nearly imperceptibly when I cross the Pacific to Catalina (26 miles, climb to 6500 or better enroute) but plenty of people have crossed big water in a piston single. I imagine things are much better with GPS and satellite phones too. Heck, probably have plenty of time to catch up on MooneySpace enroute... 1 Quote
cliffy Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Google up "Honey Mooney" to see a real around the world Mooney Quote
Jerry Pressley Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Ditching in the lake is much different than ditching in the North Atlantic. Anyone know of an instance of someone ditching between greenland and iceland and making it back? Even if you get into the raft the water is so turbulent and cold that it is impossible o stay dry enough to survive. Guess you just have to look at it from a few hundred feet to actually visualize Quote
khedrei Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 You are right that what happens in a raft and chances of survival are different. But you said you don't have time to get in your raft before the plane sinks. That's not true. The plane sinks just the same whether it's in the ocean, the lake or community swimming pool. The conditions of the water, difficulty getting into the raft due to swells and weather and your chances of survival once you get in are certainly different. But to say you dont have time to get into a raft before the plane sinks is completely false. This all being said, if presented the opportunity with an experienced person who was well prepared, I would drop what I was doing to experience a trip like this. If anyone knows of someone, get in touch Quote
ArtVandelay Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 If my math is correct I estimate is that a Mooney would need to displace 40 cuft of water, so if the cabin retains it’s integrity, you will float no problem, that’s not counting the wings and tail. If the water was above the wing, it would be better to exit through the cargo hatch. Emergency life rafts are easy to deploy and self inflate in seconds. This assumes you are still conscious of course and there isn’t a storm causing high seas. I would definitely check the marine forecast as well as the aviation forecasts, just in case. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 I'm pretty sure you'd also be wearing a survival suit (dry suit)? So even if you went in the water, you're not immediately dead from the cold temps. While it's certainly more dangerous than flying around Texas in daytime VFR, the crossing is done regularly by lots of pilots who don't die. I wouldn't hesitate to make the trip with proper equipment, preparation, and planning. Quote
exM20K Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 3 hours ago, acpartswhse said: Ditching in the lake is much different than ditching in the North Atlantic. Anyone know of an instance of someone ditching between greenland and iceland and making it back? Even if you get into the raft the water is so turbulent and cold that it is impossible o stay dry enough to survive. Guess you just have to look at it from a few hundred feet to actually visualize Not between Greenland and Iceland, but w.t hours off St Johns and night with an under cast: http://www.equipped.org/92ditch.htm Quote
carusoam Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 9:10 AM, khedrei said: Reviving an old thread here... Do people do these trips often? And do people seek company from curious individuals in the community. I figured it would always be nice to have another pilot on board. If so, I have lots of spare time this summer and would love to take a trip like this to learn more about it. Maybe I will work up to doing it myself one day. If anyone knows anyone.... MS has a couple of people cross the pond each year... Every other year or three, An MSer will round the entire globe... One year, recently, a Long Body Mooney rounded the globe with the youngest pilot to fly solo ever... @adrian the OP of this thread did a real nice job of writing about the preparation leading up to his flight back to France... starting with buying the M20E... @Piloto has done some nice documentation of crossing the pond and posting pics with lots of snow... Also has some excellent knowledge of radios and antennae... @terbang went the southern route...? @BCrystal was the MS poster for Bryan Lloyd for his recent round the world flight. Bryan had some interesting fuel challenges that really show how knowledge and good planning can keep you alive... If this is your plan... do a lot of reading... share your plan... report as often as able... MSers will be watching your progress. Crossing large bodies of water is full of many risks... take them all seriously. Expect some more that you haven’t considered... PREPARE... BETTER than postpare... Lots of AMUs... Lots of safety equipment.... Lots of knowledge... Lots of preparation... Get ready! PP thoughts only, not a recommendation... sharing Lots of evidence of people flying Mooneys non-stop over long distances... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
N131MA Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: I'm pretty sure you'd also be wearing a survival suit (dry suit)? So even if you went in the water, you're not immediately dead from the cold temps. While it's certainly more dangerous than flying around Texas in daytime VFR, the crossing is done regularly by lots of pilots who don't die. I wouldn't hesitate to make the trip with proper equipment, preparation, and planning. Fully agree: I have been scuba diving with my dry suit under an ice layer in a frozen lake. Very comfortable even after 45min. I would not be concerned to swim in my dry suit for some minutes in the North Atlantic before getting into the raft. I own a Switlik single person raft. This can be carried like a belt over the dry suit. This minimizes the risk to not get it out of the aircraft after ditching. http://www.switlik.com/aviation/isplr/features For some flying single engine over the ocean is reckless, some do it for living. Everybody is right from his perspective. I accept the calculated risk ... and I'll never forget the arctic landscape, the learning to prepare such trips, the experience to fly and land in Greenland, and especially the people I met on these trips. The pic shows an example of poor preparation for a crossing some years ago: Some airports in Northern Canada sell 100LL by the drum only. I didn't have a manual pump. I found an old oily hose, sucked air until avgas poured through the hose into the jerry can, from there into the Mooney tanks. More to come :-) Edited July 15, 2018 by N131MA 3 Quote
carusoam Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 @kortopates posted a link to an automatic type siphoning hose recently... https://www.amazon.com/Shaker-Siphon-Hose-Original-Safety/dp/B06X93C7R8/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_lp_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SNGN6RR8J4PN51EX2X4D Could make drinking 100LL a thing of the past... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
FBCK Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 There was very old footage of a C or E model landing in the Ocean on you tube that I saw a couple of years back. Can’t find it anymore but the plane floated long enough to get a raft out, although in this case he was rescued by a boat that film the ditching. Quote
Jim Peace Posted July 16, 2018 Report Posted July 16, 2018 14 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: I'm pretty sure you'd also be wearing a survival suit (dry suit)? So even if you went in the water, you're not immediately dead from the cold temps. Yes I did wear one. It was put on up to my waste, I would just have to put it over my arms and zip up if anything happened. Today I wear a nice short sleeve shirt and sip on some coffee looking down at the surface and say to myself "what the FCUK was I thinking." 3 Quote
mike_elliott Posted July 16, 2018 Report Posted July 16, 2018 On 7/14/2018 at 1:45 PM, N131MA said: Hey Mike - for the return trip next summer? :-) Looking forward to catch up in Oshkosh! Absolutely! Ill be at OSH Tues only, but look forward to seeing you Peter! Quote
flumag Posted July 17, 2018 Report Posted July 17, 2018 There is not a lot of routes that can be flown without a ferry tank or at least file FL250 over the north atlantic. The way over Frobisher Bay is kind of a usual alternative and doesn't require HF or FL250. For US pilots feelings the fuel in Greenland could be quite expensive (approx. $20 per GAL). Here some pictures and the route from a 2010 flight https://www.findmespot.com/spotadventures/index.php/view_adventure?tripid=213182 and https://www.findmespot.com/spotadventures/index.php/view_adventure?tripid=224625 Also make sure that you plan accordingly since on Sunday all Greenland airports have closed (accept you like to pay a fortune for open the airport on your request. There is also no night flights over the ice cape from or to Greenland airports. Planning is key.... I know its limited in MS but in case you speak Germany here is a very helpful doc thats also maintained with basically all needed information and procedures likes customs, FBO's, rescue equipment etc. Hendrik 1 Quote
cliffy Posted July 17, 2018 Report Posted July 17, 2018 The above is very interesting but I have absolutely no interest in flying in a poopie suit. My world is getting smaller with every day passing. Been there, done it (but with 3 engines and no poopie suit). :-) Quote
ArtVandelay Posted July 17, 2018 Report Posted July 17, 2018 Hendrik, I couldn’t help notice you have ice on the leading edges of the wings, what time of the year was that? Quote
terbang Posted July 20, 2018 Report Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) On 7/15/2018 at 6:59 PM, carusoam said: @terbang went the southern route...? Yes, we took this route: We took the northern route towards the west and the route via the Azores on the way back. A report is here: https://www.euroga.org/forums/trips-airports/9174-to-the-end-of-the-world-and-back-the-whole-story#post_176978 Edited July 20, 2018 by terbang 4 Quote
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