Running out of elevator trim..

[Alan Fox]

In my E model , I am running out of elevator trim on landings , I think that a little more , would improve my landings , If I remove the emp fairings , and pull the trim link , and screw out the jack screw a half turn , or a full turn if required ...is there any downside???

[Mooneymite]

Before adjusting your trim, check your engine's thrust angle. As the lord mounts age, your engine sags giving you more down thrust. Shimming the engine may be the solution instead.

Just a suggestion.

[carusoam]

Alan,

My C used to run out as well...

My transition training was to put in full up trim on final, with the admonition "you can never get enough trim" in a Mooney."

To alter the trim has risk. Too much trim can result in a stall of one wing or the other...

One wing has a stall warning device, the tail does not.

I would check the settings vs. book values to see if something has changed.

Best regards,

-a-

[BigTex]

You can always throw a toolbox in the baggage area and shift the CG.

[takair]

I would check for proper rigging first. Check flap travel and rigging as well. I don't think I have ever run out of trim. Adding weight in the form of a tool box in the luggage area, as mentioned above, is a good idea.

The risk of rigging outside of limits is when on a go around, with aft CG, you may not be able to get enough nose down trim fast enough.

[201er]

In my E model , I am running out of elevator trim on landings , I think that a little more , would improve my landings , If I remove the emp fairings , and pull the trim link , and screw out the jack screw a half turn , or a full turn if required ...is there any downside???

Lose some weight

[Alan Fox]

Lose some weight

Are you going to have a "poll" on this one....

[MARZ]

A change in any normal condition is a signal to find a root cause. Not a will fix. Making it work better by adjusting out the change will only mask the issue and may eventually be hazardous.

[Marauder]

In my E model , I am running out of elevator trim on landings , I think that a little more , would improve my landings , If I remove the emp fairings , and pull the trim link , and screw out the jack screw a half turn , or a full turn if required ...is there any downside??? Lose some weight

Easy for you to say. Just pump up your inflatable doll with helium and you're all set.

[Alan Fox]

Easy for you to say. Just pump up your inflatable doll with helium and you're all set.

Wont work , she sits up front...

[Alan Fox]

Well how about this , there is a spec for elevator travel , but what is the spec for horizontal stabilizer travel and limits....  It must have to deal with leveling the plane...

[Hank]

When I land, the trim indicator is usually pretty close to the Takeoff mark. Has anything changed on your E, or are you trying to slam it on the runway like a Beech?

[WardHolbrook]

Check your rigging and engine mounts. While you're at it, run a few W&B problems. Every Mooney I've ever flown had enough (but just enough) trim with two lard arses up front. I wouldn't be messing around with the factory rigging specs when it comes to trim. Don't go there, it can come back to bite you. Like someone else mentioned, a few tools, a survival kit and a quart or two of oil might be all you need. 

[N201MKTurbo]

On both my F and J the up trim limit is set by the vertical stabilizer hitting the dorsal faring. I usually set it so when the hand wheel is at the nose up stop the vertical stabilizer is about 1/8 inch from hitting the faring. This seems to get the takeoff setting just right. I realize some of the older models didn't have the faring.

[Alan Fox]

When I land, the trim indicator is usually pretty close to the Takeoff mark. Has anything changed on your E, or are you trying to slam it on the runway like a Beech?

I wish I could land the mooney like the Beech...The Beech is the second easiest plane I have ever landed ....  The Mooney must be flown until it is almost stopped....

[Stefanovm]

From cruise flight with my normal 350 pound load, not counting fuel, and only 10% of that back of the front seats, I roll the trim wheel back 8 to 10 palm strikes to get an 80 mph no power final. I just went out and checked, this is more nose up trim than I use for cruise, about 2 palm strikes nose down from take-off or close to the same as take-off. The 80 mph final setting is 14 palm strikes nose down from full up. I rarely look at the indication after setting to take off, but set to what I need by neutral trimming the yoke. With a more aft cg, rear passengers or luggage, I have enough extra up trim to get into trouble on a balked landing. With a gross load, I still have a significant amount of nose down available in cruise. I have been full gross with a very aft cg several times, but do not remember anything except that I still set the indicator to take off and needed a bit more nose down for the following cruise and less aft to get the 80 mph final. Check for something else being wrong.

[Stefanovm]

I wish I could land the mooney like the Beech...The Beech is the second easiest plane I have ever landed ....  The Mooney must be flown until it is almost stopped....

The only Beechs that I have flown are a miltary T-34 and a B-90, probably considered old also. I like my Mooney better, landings, too. However, I have never tried not flying any airplane until almost fuly stopped, except one. That one taught me to always consider the airplane ready to fly one way or another. This lesson may not apply to the big ones. I am limited to only four, maybe not all considered "big", including Lear 25, B-90, Falcon 50 on a maintenance trial (SIC), and about 6 hours in a C-141 simulator (probably does not count, and only ten landings). I would note that for smaller GA, most of my 2,200 + time, taxing is just a special case of flying. I have never run out of trim for what was needed in any of the aircraft that I have flown.

[Stefanovm]

Add to my "Check for something else being wrong." If someone had done what you contemplate doing, but for extra nose down, maybe your solution is needed. This would be "something wrong". However, employ the service of a competent person who knows what it should look like from a rigging standpoint factory fresh. I know one here in central Texas, but that is a bit far away from you.

[Dave Marten]

Before you tear your plane apart check the yoke actuator in the front left seat....Could be pilot technique. I don't advocate trimming all the way into the flare. Get her trimmed up on a stable final and then use the yoke. As you know the Mooney's flight control system is drastically different than your Bo. While the Mooney flight controls are solid and slop-free the Bonanza's cable pulley system is much more refined resulting in excellent handling qualities. (yes, better than Mooney).

My last mistress was a G35 and se handled like a dream, but was outdated and had no get up and go, hence the current fling with a 231, she's got legs that go all the way up to FL250 and she'll play up there for quite a while just gotta let her down easy with a little more finesse.

Fly the Mononey the way she likes to be flown and she'll treat you right. Don't get your two ladies confused or you'll get slapped (with a hard landing)!

[Hank]

I can't say my Mooney is hard to land, but it does land differently than the 172s I learned in. I've only landed a Bo about three times, but I treated it like a Mooney, power off, hold it off and let it settle on its own. My stall horn squalls on landing prior to touchdown, or else it's a whopper. I've always heard "fly it all the way to the tiedown" and that's often overkill but is sometimes needed.

 

[Marauder]

Alan -- on my F I never lose "nose up" trim but I do wonder about "nose down" trim. When I have the STEC engaged with autotrim, the trim indicator is pegged all the way down. When I land, I am about an indicator width (with the bottom of the indicator as reference) up. Here is a picture of my Mooney with the AP engaged and the trim set by the AP. Is this normal?

[Alan Fox]

Alan -- on my F I never lose "nose up" trim but I do wonder about "nose down" trim. When I have the STEC engaged with autotrim, the trim indicator is pegged all the way down. When I land, I am about an indicator width (with the bottom of the indicator as reference) up. Here is a picture of my Mooney with the AP engaged and the trim set by the AP. Is this normal? ImageUploadedByTapatalk1372203116.604099.jpg

If that is a cruise setting , that is normal...

[chrisk]

Just wondering if you are using full flaps.  You might try 10 degrees instead.

[Marauder]

Alan -- on my F I never lose "nose up" trim but I do wonder about "nose down" trim. When I have the STEC engaged with autotrim, the trim indicator is pegged all the way down. When I land, I am about an indicator width (with the bottom of the indicator as reference) up. Here is a picture of my Mooney with the AP engaged and the trim set by the AP. Is this normal? ImageUploadedByTapatalk1372203116.604099.jpg If that is a cruise setting , that is normal...

Yep. In cruise. I never looked at it before and only did when I saw your thread. I definitely do not lose trim up capability on landing though. Still have quite a bit trim up left.

[flyingvee201]

If that is a cruise setting , that is normal...

Sorry guys for pulling up an old thread.

My issue is I'm running out of down trim in cruise.

I could use another 1/8 to 1/4 turn on the trim wheel.

I have to hold the yoke down just a little bit. It's not a lot...it doesn't jump up and start climbing like crazy...its just off by a hair.

My flying partners are experiencing the same thing with one passenger and with a full load.

I'm wondering if the trim assembly or trim screw rod (not the trim wheel itself) is adjustable?

 

thanks

Vic