Feul caps.

[Lood]

Where is the best place to buy new fuel caps for a '67F? Mine are due to be replaced at the next annual and I'd like to get an idea of the costs.

[Steve65E-NC]

They are made by Shaw in Naples, Fl.  Last I checked, about two years back,  $375 each.  Are you sure your caps can not be repaired??  What does "due to be replaced" mean??

[jetdriven]

The least painful way I have found to replace parts like this is start looking 6 months in advance at salvage and eBay.

[MooneyMitch]

Also, contact LASAR or maybe Maxwell.  I'll bet they've got some serviceable units.  In addition, as previously mentioned, yours might just need some minor repair/shims/etc.

[Marauder]

I bet that O&N Aircraft Modifications in Pennsylvania has a whole box full of them, mine included. At least in my case they didn't return them when I had bladders installed. In retrospect I should have requested that they be returned.

Jim

 

And mine too!

[Alan Fox]

I have a set you can have for 75.00 plus shipping , post a pic so I can make sure mine are correct.... Regards

[Lood]

They are made by Shaw in Naples, Fl.  Last I checked, about two years back,  $375 each.  Are you sure your caps can not be repaired??  What does "due to be replaced" mean??

 

Mine got really "sticky", if I can call it that. They became difficult to open, almost like the lever was hooking onto something. I lubricated them, which helped a little. After the recent annual, my AME advised me that they worked on my fuel caps, but that they are rather worn out and would probably need to be replaced, next year.

Wow, at $375 each, with the current ZAR/$ exchange rate, that's a big no, no. That means that the two fuel caps will cost just about as much as I pay for the labor part of a complete annual!!!

That's really ridiculous - I should really start looking at an RV or anything else NTCA...

[Lood]

I have a set you can have for 75.00 plus shipping , post a pic so I can make sure mine are correct.... Regards

 

Thanks a lot, I'll get back to you on this one.

[larryb]

Mine got really "sticky", if I can call it that. They became difficult to open, almost like the lever was hooking onto something.

Have you checked the adjustment? I'm assuming the caps are the same as on my J. There is a castle nut with cotter pin on the bottom of the cap. A very minor change in the tightness of this nut can have a huge impact on the force required to open/shut the latch on the cap.

 

Larry

[Marauder]

They are made by Shaw in Naples, Fl. Last I checked, about two years back, $375 each. Are you sure your caps can not be repaired?? What does "due to be replaced" mean?? Mine got really "sticky", if I can call it that. They became difficult to open, almost like the lever was hooking onto something. I lubricated them, which helped a little. After the recent annual, my AME advised me that they worked on my fuel caps, but that they are rather worn out and would probably need to be replaced, next year. Wow, at $375 each, with the current ZAR/$ exchange rate, that's a big no, no. That means that the two fuel caps will cost just about as much as I pay for the labor part of a complete annual!!! That's really ridiculous - I should really start looking at an RV or anything else NTCA...

Want another crazy? The O rings for my O&N bladder caps are $50 each...

[1964-M20E]

Why O&N decided to use a pressurized fuel cap from I believe a Lear Jet is beyond me.  OVerkill to say the least.

[Hank]

Gee, so your bladders cost twice what my reseal did, added more fuel caps that cost 10X or more to maintain and several times that to replace. Thought by now you'd be used to the twin bladder penalties of higher cost and lower useful load. . . .

[jetdriven]

Bladders are comparable to a reseal and last just as long or longer. Plus, on an older model, you can actually add fuel capacity.  The new kits have a far more reasonable fuel cap installed.

[Alan Fox]

Why O&N decided to use a pressurized fuel cap from I believe a Lear Jet is beyond me.  OVerkill to say the least.

Say whatever you want , I have never had to replace one of them , and they NEVER leak water....

[Hank]

Jim--

 

I paid $6500 cash with a MAPA member discount to strip and reseal my 52-gallon tanks. A friend with another C paid $10,000 to have bladders installed, but I don't know his final out-the-door cost. So my reseal was "only" just over a third cheaper rather than half. My warranty is seven years . . .

 

Round trip on the airlines [Allegiant] was $143 after all of the hidden fees were added in. The quote was $25 one way and $49 the other; I declined to either pay for a premium seat, food, exit row seating, pre-assigned seating or a checked bag. One change of clothes and my flight bag is all I had, and my Halo headset is far from bulky.

 

En route, I stayed with my brother going down to meet the airline's noon departure, and I visited another Mooneyspacer for lunch coming home.

 

Dropped off when he asked for it, picked up when I needed it back, in time for Thanksgiving travel. No muss, no fuss, no new holes cut in my wings for funny new caps.

 

Bladder question:  do the old caps just stay there all unusable, or should they be removed and faired over if the plane is painted?

[1964-M20E]

I’ve never had any water issue with either my 64 E model with original tanks and caps that sat outside or my 67F model with bladders. The bladders were already installed and I’m happy with the 54 gallon capacity and at present not worth the time expense or effort to increase to 64 gallons IMHO. I did look on EBay and found a replacement cap for around $50 to keep as a spare just in case. It is old and not pretty but it will seal the tank.<br /><br />The only time I ever found water in my 64E was after Issac flooded it.

[DonMuncy]

 

 

The AD requiring annual inspection and replacement of the OEM fuel cap o-rings is eliminated.

Jim

Is the AD eliminated because you have new caps, or because of the blue O-rings. If because of the O-rings, what is the source of this information.

[Marauder]

 

 

Hi, Hank. Thanks for the information and detailed response. I don't know where all of the misinformation that is out there comes from about bladders. My 64 gallon bladder installation cost $8,900 at O&N in 2008, including taxes. I dropped the plane off and three business days later it was ready for pickup, as promised. If you want to hang around while it is being done they will give you a loaner car. I decided, though, to fly home and back commercial, and they provided ground transporation to and from the nearest airport with commercial service. I used frequent flyer miles so the airfare was free. I think that the hotel for 3 nights was $150 or so. The warranty is five years, but if warranty work is required your mechanic can do it and O&N will pay him or her directly, so no more travel/transporation costs are incurred. New (superior) fuel caps and (vastly superior) stainless steel fuel filler rings are included. The new caps have fluorosilicone o-rings that do cost $100 a set, but on my hangared bird I imagine that they will last for 20 years or so. The AD requiring annual inspection and replacement of the OEM fuel cap o-rings is eliminated. The original fuel caps are neither retained nor faired over. At least in my installation, the new fuel caps are installed exactly where the old ones were.

Jim

 

Mine were installed in 1992 and I think I paid somewhere around $6,000 installed (I will confirm this number). The big seller for me was the 5 year warranty versus 1 year that was offered for a reseal. 54 gallons was the only option available back then and I lost 10 gallons -- but haven't missed it. The range is still fine for the majority of flying I do.

 

So, 21 years and knock on wood, still fine. I have the original caps and my mechanic looks at the O rings and tells me there are still fine. I am a preventative maintenance kind of owner, and if there were any indications of water leaks, I would have replaced them.

[jetdriven]

2  years ago I replaced what I believe to be the original O-rings, installed with the bladder kit in 1991.

[Hank]

I've seen a C with 64-gallon bladders installed, and there is a set of new caps further out on the wing. The original caps are still there, too, I think, or else a new plate had been installed. Thought it looked funny. Then there's the issue of matching paint around where the new caps were installed, and hoping that there are no stripes or color changes in that spot.

 

As far as my O-rings go, I'm not so frugal that $1/year in parts tears me up. It's quick, easy, effective and cheap. I look at them when I refuel anyway, and save the little one on the inside for annual.

[jetdriven]

Hank, the Monroy 100 gallon conversion wets a few more bays in the wing, and they have 4 fuel caps.  Can you imagine the range of a 100 gallon M20C?

[Hank]

Hank, the Monroy 100 gallon conversion wets a few more bays in the wing, and they have 4 fuel caps.  Can you imagine the range of a 100 gallon M20C?

 

Let's see:  970 useful - [100 gal x 6 lb/gal] = 370 lb.

 

Me (dressed) + flightbag + charts ~ 200 lb.

Tools, tie downs, canopy cover, umbrella, "stuff" ~30 lb.

 

Useful load for wife/pax, luggage, snacks, etc. = 140 lb.

 

Time for the family and friends to stop eating!!

 

On the other hand, 100 gal @ 9 gph = 11.1 hours - 1 hour reserve = 10 hours x 140 knots = 1400 nm.

Can you sit mostly still in your Mooney for 10 hours? I don't think I want to . . .

[Marauder]

Hank, the Monroy 100 gallon conversion wets a few more bays in the wing, and they have 4 fuel caps.  Can you imagine the range of a 100 gallon M20C?

 

Longer than the bathroom thread?

[1964-M20E]

Hank, the Monroy 100 gallon conversion wets a few more bays in the wing, and they have 4 fuel caps.  Can you imagine the range of a 100 gallon M20C?

about 5000' when you do not get off the runway :-)))))

[Hank]

about 5000' when you do not get off the runway :-)))))

 

At home, that will put me 1500' into the woods, because the first several hundred feet were cleared a couple of years ago to salvage a Cessna . . .

 

No offense, Jim. My Mooney experience is pretty limited [i've flown in two], and have only knowingly seen the single example of one with bladders. Either way you go, you makes your choice and pays your money.

 

But no thanks, Byron, I don't want to double my fuel load. It's too hard figuring out how much gas you really have when the dipstick comes out dry and there's still 20 or 30 gallons in the tank.