Cost per hour (to share with passengers)

[OR75]

i wonder what people use as a reasonable number when sharing cost with passenger.

cost of fuel (~ 10 gallons per hour) ?

cost of fuel + engine time ( 10 gallons + ~ $10) ?

add pro-rate of the cost of an annual ?

is there a guidance from the FAA ?

[jetdriven]

our experience it costs fuel plus about 30$ an hour to run an M20J for direct operating cost. Around 120$ an hour all in for 100-200 hours per year. FWIW I charge half the gas for joyrides, all the gas for a run to do soemthing solely for them, and they do the same for me.

[aaronk25]

Have the gas is reasonable and if your going to fly anyway it still helps offset the cost. Start charging more and I think you will find no one wants to go.

I also have the party pay 100% of the gas bill if its solely to get them somewhere and donate the plane time.

[1964-M20E]

Like above it depends on what is going on. If somone wants to go sowhere I was not going I let them pay for fuel. If I'm already going then sometimes I do not take anything. If it is an introductory flight for somone who has not flown before I do not even go down the road of asking them to chip in.

[carusoam]

OR, there is guidance from the FAA regarding shared expenses. You want to be cautious to avoid behaving like a commercial pilot without the rating.

It's right up there with bringing passengers on a work related flight and how to handle the related expenses.

Best regards,

-a-

[OR75]

can you point to the FAA guidance ?

[TTaylor]

can you point to the FAA guidance ?

 

Try:

 

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/Private%20Pilot%20Shared%20Expenses%202009-08-03.shtml

[carusoam]

OR

You will have to read and interpret yourself. I am a private pilot, not an FAA lawyer.

We get a lot of privileges and a fair amount of limitations as well.

***********

I used the asterisks to highlight the section I am familiar with regarding sharing flight expenses

***********

Ymmv...

Special smiley faces are supplied accidentally by substitution of actual FAA chosen charcters with control characters selected by my iPad....

-a-

The following excerpt is from the FARs, supplied by WingX..?

§61.113 - Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs ( through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.

( A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and

(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.

**********************************

© A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

**********************************

(d) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event flight described in §91.146, if the sponsor and pilot comply with the requirements of §91.146.

(e) A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees, and the operation is sanctioned and under the direction and control of:

(1) A local, State, or Federal agency; or

(2) An organization that conducts search and location operations.

(f) A private pilot who is an aircraft salesman and who has at least 200 hours of logged flight time may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer.

(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of §61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

(h) A private pilot may act as pilot in command for the purpose of conducting a production flight test in a light-sport aircraft intended for certification in the light-sport category under §21.190 of this chapter, provided that—

(1) The aircraft is a powered parachute or a weight-shift-control aircraft;

(2) The person has at least 100 hours of pilot-in-command time in the category and class of aircraft flown; and

(3) The person is familiar with the processes and procedures applicable to the conduct of production flight testing, to include operations conducted under a special flight permit and any associated operating limitations.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61–110, 69 FR 44869, July 27, 2004; Amdt. 61–115, 72 FR 6910, Feb. 13, 2007; Amdt. 61–125, 75 FR 5220, Feb. 1, 2010]

[carusoam]

TT's link above has a nice interpretation of the FAR.

-a-

[gregwatts]

Also.....read your insurance policy! Some policies only allow you to charge the actual cost of fuel and oil! There has been more than one policy voided because an accident flight was deemed a commercial operation.

[wishboneash]

If you have the AOPA legal plan, you can talk someone who knows the ins and outs of this. Based on what I read on the FARs, *MY* interpretation is that you cannot charge any fixed expenses (annuals, maintenance, hangar/tie-down costs). My interpretation of airport expenses is landing fees or other costs directly related to that flight. One cannot "hold out" to fly someone and charge them for the entire flight. That is not "incidental" from what carusoam quoted above.  To be safe, I share the fuel costs only and for short flights, I prefer someone pick up the tab for lunch or something similar. Slightly unrelated to this but related to commercial operations,  I sometimes fly between Nor Cal and So Cal on work - unfortunately, my company does not permit me to take passengers, otherwise, the company could save money by paying me for the variable costs (compared to two Southwest tickets). 

[1964-M20E]

Get your commercial ticket and many of these issues go away :-)) I do not think that any casual flight from here to there will cause anyone problems with the FAA if the passenger picks up the total fuel bill as long a both agree it is not a comercial flight and that he is not paying you to fly. Even driving you personal car you get extra in the mileage rate to cover wear and tear on the vehicle. Now if you are making a habit of flying people around and they are picking up more than the fuel bill you might be getting on very thin ice. Of course if you really wanted to get around the issue without a commercial ticket you can give someone a ride and then they can pay you to wait for them at the airport or even drive the rental car for them and then you can fly them home not getting paid for your time or aircraft therefore never takeing any money from them for flying.

[OR75]

commercial opens another can of worms. the aircraft maintenance parameters change.

maybe to clarify my question, i am not looking to see what is the maximum I can get from people riding with me without going against the law. ( i take only friends and never asked or took anything although i usually get lunch or dinner paid probably like most of us on here.

i was thinking that if someone asked to split only the fuel, he may as well not ask for anything.

on the other hand, prorating things like annual or hangar would not be totally fair.

maybe a good number to use would be the rental rate. but i don't know how much an FBO margin is.

thanks for the link to the faa guidance.

[midlifeflyer]

Get your commercial ticket and many of these issues go away :-))

I do not think that any casual flight from here to there will cause anyone problems with the FAA if the passenger picks up the total fuel bill as long a both agree it is not a comercial flight and that he is not paying you to fly. Even driving you personal car you get extra in the mileage rate to cover wear and tear on the vehicle. Now if you are making a habit of flying people around and they are picking up more than the fuel bill you might be getting on very thin ice.

Of course if you really wanted to get around the issue without a commercial ticket you can give someone a ride and then they can pay you to wait for them at the airport or even drive the rental car for them and then you can fly them home not getting paid for your time or aircraft therefore never takeing any money from them for flying.

A commercial certificate does not make most of the issues go away. Flying someone in your airplane where they want to go but not where you we're going to go anyway for any form of compensation requires a commercial operators certificate (Part 135) as well as a commercial pilots certificate. I am away and don't have them on hand but there are numerous FAA Chief Counsel opinion letters that say so.

[OR75]

yep, part 135 and you need to start working on all the SBs not just the ADs....add 100 hour inspections, not just annuals ...

[midlifeflyer]

I located the most recent of the FAA Chief Counsel opinion letters in my iPad links. It's from 2011 and gives a pretty good review of the principles involved.

http://tinyurl.com/42qamof

[mikefox]

All,

 

Please be careful with this one, as many have pointed out!  All that can be done is share the variable cost of the flight (fuel, oil consumed, etc.).  Fixed costs and deferred maintenance do not count!

 

Also, if you are even allowing the passenger to contribute for gas on a trip that you did not plan together, it could be considered an illegal Part 135 operation.  For instance, a friend of a friend asks if you can fly him to another city for the day and says that he will help with the expenses.  Technically that is not permitted under Part 91, unless you were planning the trip together.  It can be considered "holding out to the public" to furnish air transportation. In the past pilots at my airport have been busted for this by posting on a bulletin board.

 

-Mike