spokewrench Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Just started training for engine failures and landing with no power, was wondering if any of you actually needed to perform a real engine failure ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 In 9000 hours, no. I have had one airplane (a 172N) with an intermittent exhaust valve sticking incident, but other than that, nothing. I will qualify that only 3000 hours of that is pistons, but still. I think most engine failures are fuel exhaustion and fuel starvation. Further, a good percentage of the other failures are a result of shoddy maintenance or ignoring something. That said, always be prepared for sudden engine failure. You might not always find a runway, but you can usually survive the forced landing. You only need 40 feet to decelerate from 60 knots to a full stop to survive. You can buy another airplane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I've had an exhaust stack break on a Cherokee 140 and an exhaust valve break on a Cherokee 180. I'm grateful that on every training flight I made, that I had a simulated engine failure at some point when I least expected it. Neither one of those little incidents rattled me as I automatically knew what to do without much thought. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooney2201 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 yep brand new lycoming engine, 400 ft she just stopped,only words out of my mouth was god help me,i was able to make small turns, and get her turned around to land on taxi way.fuel injection system failed,and it only took a split second,i think my training saved me,but luck plays a big part.just always be prepared,after twenty years things just do happen,if you do dilligent maintenance,and dont fly crap....you will greatly lower the odds of a major failure.good luck on many years of flying,always listen to your conscience,if you are uncomfortable there is a reason,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregwatts Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I had a flame-out in a Lear 25 at FL410..........does that count? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Dang, a drift down to Fl200, and you can only make 285 knots to the destination!. Just kidding of course. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I had an exhaust valve break in a M20E in 1987. Had to pull throttle back to idle. I was climbing through 5000' and within glide range of an airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Just started training for engine failures and landing with no power, was wondering if any of you actually needed to perform a real engine failure ? Yesterday from my home airport: http://news.hjnews.com/allaccess/article_36b5a2b2-6d7c-11e2-bed9-0019bb2963f4.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Stuck exhaust valve in an M20C on departure. First ten hours, with CFI. Landed on a cross runway at Salisbury, MD. Plane had been unused for a couple years prior to purchase. Lower nose, Maintain airspeed, land straight ahead. If still developing power, maintain speed, select next available runway. Make friends with the locals, borrow tools, check plugs don't fly it until the answer is known. Get engine monitor, don't wait until next annual... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron McBride Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I had an engine quit in a C310 just before roatation, Pulled both throttle's to idle, I should have bent the throttle's pulling back so hard. The rocker tower of the valve broke, engine ran on the ground, but only about 1700 rpm. 5 to 10 seconds later, gear would have been in transit. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 EAA had a great seminar a weeks back called " beyond TBO" by Mike Busch. you can still find it in EAA website I am sure. in summary, Mike showed data that the first 200 hours after overhaul , the engine can have catastrophic failures that are very tough to see coming. after that, the engine usually runs fine and failures before or after TBO occur but you see them coming (compressions, oil analysis, etc ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyTester Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 "They" always say failures in steady state cruise are very rare and that you'll have plenty of clues before anything happens. Catastrophic failure of the L engine in a C-310 in cruise (IFR on top no less 80nm S of AST on V27 ). Engine/prop completely seized in the time it takes to say Bada-boom! Diverted to PDX which was VFR and landed on 10L. Post flight inspection revealed one of the piston rods protruding from the engine case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spokewrench Posted February 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks for the replies ! I will definately get these emergency procedures down pat ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELT Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 3 too many in 3,400 hours. (1)1981 Complete ignition loss at first power reduction in a Cardinal RG due to stupid mag design. Made turn back to runway due to large airport, climbing into headwind and STOL kit. 200 hours in type aircraft. (2) 1986 Number 3 jug departed right engine in Aztec in cruise. Cause: poor quality work by engine overhauler. Aztecs fly good on 1 engine. 2,300 in type aircraft. (3) 2006 fuel selector in M20C jammed in the ÖFF during pre landing check. Overestimated my glide ability and had to land gear up in a field. 8.5 hours in Mooney ( 6 of those hours were more than 20 years prior). Yes, I had a >1,000 hour Mooney CFII in the airplane. Cause: Aircraft just purchased with "fresh annual". Lessons: Early mags in IO360a1b6d engines are bad news and owner assist/oversee everything you can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Just started training for engine failures and landing with no power, was wondering if any of you actually needed to perform a real engine failure ? Yesterday from my home airport: http://news.hjnews.com/allaccess/article_36b5a2b2-6d7c-11e2-bed9-0019bb2963f4.html Tim -- you were piloting it? If so, wow! 5 on board and all not injured. Nice job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks for the replies ! I will definately get these emergency procedures down pat ! As was mentioned above also consider an engine analyzer if you don't have one. I had an exhaust stud break in flight that allowed the whole stack to work free (the other stud's nut vibrated off) and fall into the cowling. I knew something was up by seeing the exhaust temps for that cylinder fluctuate a few minutes before it completely came off. Was over IMC conditions and made it to an airport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardHolbrook Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 In 47 years I've had: Piston: 3 total failures - Mooney, Cessna 411, Cessna 172. The C411 was on the first revenue flight of a 0-SFREMAN engine. 1 partial failure in a Cessna 207 and 1 partial failure in a Cessna 421C, also on a 0-SFREMAN engine. Turboprop: 3 partial failures - 2 in PT-6s which didn't require a shutdown, but required a return to the airport with the power on the affected enginepulled way back. 1 in a TPE-331 had a internal propeller hub failure which caused the propeller to go into full reverse pitch. Happened on rollout. Would have been catastrophic inflight. Not a Garrett issue. It was the first flight on a Hartzell overhauled prop in an MU-2 Marquise. Turbojet: 2 precautionary shutdowns in TFE-731s and 1 turbine wheel failure in a TFE-731. These were all new or well-maintained engines in well-maintained aircraft. The precautionary shutdowns were due to maintenance center screw ups and not an engine issue. The turbine wheel failure was on a brand new wheel shortly after a CORE inspection. There was also a precautionary shutdown on a brand-new Boeing 737 that I was jump seating on. Bottom line is that if you've never had a failure then you're due for one and it could likely happen at any time. If you've had one or more failures then you're due for another one and it could likely happen at any time. Plan and conduct your flights and recurrent training accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Lower nose..... Quickly, very quickly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I had a full engine out, midfield, downwind at St. Augustine. The fuel selector was inadvertently switched to "off". Turned immediately and made the runway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeb Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I have one thing to say........The real engine out, over a crowded Interstate, 900' AGL just after departing......nothing like the simulated engine out.....period! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesm20b Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I had a complete engine failure in a Cessna 182 at night at 7,000ft over the Cajon Pass in Southern California. Landed at Brackett airport in Pamona 15 miles away. Was 50hrs over TBO. Conecting rod came apart which caused the #5 cylinder to depart the engine. The 182 was used for banner towing. Lost power in an engine on take of in a Cessna 310, and had to shut down an engine on take off in a Cessna 421. After the engine failure in the 182 I think twice about making cross country flights in single engine airplanes over the desert at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I had a complete engine failure in a Cessna 182 at night at 7,000ft over the Cajon Pass in Southern California. Landed at Brackett airport in Pamona 15 miles away. Was 50hrs over TBO. Conecting rod came apart which caused the #5 cylinder to depart the engine. The 182 was used for banner towing. Lost power in an engine on take of in a Cessna 310, and had to shut down an engine on take off in a Cessna 421. After the engine failure in the 182 I think twice about making cross country flights in single engine airplanes over the desert at night. What is up with the C310? Literally like 50% of the engine failures I have ever heard of were in the Cessna 310. One guy I know of had 3 catastrophic failures in the same 310. Good thing for the second engine and good training because he had good outcomes in all 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Does anyone else notice that in a large part of engine failures, they just came out of maintenance? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesm20b Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 What is up with the C310? Literally like 50% of the engine failures I have ever heard of were in the Cessna 310. One guy I know of had 3 catastrophic failures in the same 310. Good thing for the second engine and good training because he had good outcomes in all 3. The 310 started losing power on take off. Not enough runway left to stop so I pulled up into ground effect, feathered prop, raised gear, accelerated to best single engine climb speed and would pull up to gain altitude untill speed started to slow, then level off,accelerate, climb, and kept doing that until I gained enough altitude to circle around and land. Found out I had sucked a plastic bag into the air cleaner which was keeping the engine from developing full power. In the 421, just after take off when I reached over to raise the gear I saw black smoke pouring out of the right engine. I immediately turned the fuel selector to the right engine off. Feathered engine, circled around and after landing discovered the air-oil separator line had come loose and was spraying oil on the exhaust. Defiantly keeps a person from becoming complacent about flying when you experience an engine failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I wish I could gather from this anecdotal thread some feeling for how common is an engineering failure. From guys like Byron with 9k hours, 3k in pistons and no failures, to several other folks with failures including a few with several failures in their careers. And then an unknown masses of folks with an unknown total number of hours with no failures. An ill-posed inverse mathematical question to hope to infer an hourly failure rate. Does the statistic even exist anywhere? I suppose it does not since many/most failures go unreported to official channels. We only get the NTSB reports on failures that end badly. Enough anectdotal evidence here to remind me to keep on my toes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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