Electric gear - need help

[mschmuff]

Hope someone can help out here - I have a 67F with electric gear. In the middle of the annual doing the gear retract and test of the emergency manual extension and it doesn't work.

I pulled the breaker - put the gear switch down - slid the red circular thing forward to engage - then started cranking....nothing!

Any ideas?

[Hank]

Did you turn the crank the right way? Is the lever fully engaged? Always check the simple things first.

[Marauder]

You have access to a service & parts manual? Let me check the manual and see what parts are involved. I know that a gear mechanism exists and based on your description it isn't engaging or it is stripped.

[jnisley]

It takes around 40 (clockwise, if I recall correctly) cranks on our 1969 M20F to lower gear completely, nothing much seems to happens the first few cranks.

[aerobat95]

Mine had some issues this annual. There was something about some spring tension being off. My A&P made a quick adjustment and it worked flawlessly.

[Hank]

Fifty-two turns on my C from Unsafe to Down.

[Marauder]

I found the section in the manual that shows the parts involved. Looks like a cable goes from the crank assembly to the gear motor actuator. If you don't have access to the manuals, let me know and I will send you the pertinent pages.

[jetdriven]

That red lever is pretty finicky. It pulls on a collar to engage the crank drive cable. If you fool a little with the "engaged" position of the emergency extension lever, it will engage the motor and you can crank it down

[Ron McBride]

It is a lot of turns on my 69F. I have not counted, but wen you think you should be done, you are only half way. Pull the breaker, put the gear switch down and push the lever all the way in. Make sure that you are moving the lever the right way, you might try moving the lever the opposite direction, some one could have moved it already. I had a radio shop that reinstalled the interior and moved the lever the wrong way, when I hit the gear switch, the crank grabbed my headset cords. I was not happy and very concerned about the gear operating correctly. I was not to interested in all the new goodies at that point. All ended well.

Ron

[DaV8or]

Hopefully your spline shaft isn't stripped. It's somewhat common in our older gear. It's caused by people working the gear without the red engagement lever all the way in, or if the manual is still engaged and then the electric motor is used. This part is very, very rare. There are no new ones, so you have to find a good used one. Of course, when you find it, it won't be cheap. I hope it's just a adjustment issue for you.

I run my emergency extension exactly once a year at annual.

[jezzie]

Same thing happened on my J, it was the cable from the crank to gear actuator. Dan at LASAR found one right away.

Eldon

[duke]

had the same problem on my f. The cable that enguages the clutch was dry and sticking and clutch wouldn't engage. Lubed cable and worked lever back and forth and now works fine.

Cable should probably be lubed at every annual.

[N201MKTurbo]

I think I found the last used spline two years ago. I had to pay $500.00 for a $20.00 part. Be very careful with it.

If the spline is not completely stripped go in with a needle file and clean up the ends of the splines until it re-engages.

I safety wired the lever in the disengaged position. My ex-partner was kind of short and his knee would hit the lever and engage it. He wasn't very careful about checking the position of the lever before he actuated the landing gear. We stripped out the spline coupling three times.

I'm suprised that someone like lake Aero Styling hasn't had some made.

[1964-M20E]

Sorry to hear about your problems I hope you can get them resolved with min down time and $. I'm glad I stuck with the manual gear.

Is this the same for all Mooney electric gear equipped planes our just the older ones?

[Marauder]

Sorry to hear about your problems I hope you can get them resolved with min down time and $. I'm glad I stuck with the manual gear.

Is this the same for all Mooney electric gear equipped planes our just the older ones?

Aside of the manual gear, I believe there are at least 2 (not sure about the late model Mooneys) different manual gear extension options. The older one which we are talking about here uses a rotary crank to manually extend the gear. J models started using something I refer to as the pull string. The crank version sits on the left side of the pilot near your knee. The J version was situated in between the seats and used a flip up locking mechanism and then a string mechanism to extend the gear. I remember getting my complex checkout in a J and thought the string mechanism reminded me of pulling one of those strings on a talking doll (Hi! I'm Chucky, can we be friends?).

Not sure what is on the newer versions. Both of the earlier designs had issues.

[N201MKTurbo]

The problem is with the Dukes actuator. They were installed on all Mooneys through about 1980. The newer ones have their own issues. I wish my J had a Johnson Bar.

[jwilkins]

"I think I found the last used spline two years ago. I had to pay $500.00 for a $20.00 part. Be very careful with it."

Anyone who needs parts should call Dan at Lasar (800-954-5619 ). I understand he has these splines in stock. I always start with Dan; it saves me a lot of anxiety.

Jim

[mschmuff]

Thanks guys!!

Well, it is just what a few of you said the spline was stripped. I guess somewhere in the past year the gear was actuated with that red knob not in the back position. My mechanic called LASAR and they use a guy in Sacramento to rebuild/repair the part. $350 in parts plus labor....not good!! Can't wait to see what the total bill will be for this annual even know myself (owner) and a friend assisted with it. I added a Tanis heater, moved some oil breather lines, replaced all of the fuel lines (wow - those are expensive!!) and honed / re-ringed two cylinders to try and get the oil consumption to a normal level.

Any recommendations on breaking them in besides don't baby the engine....fly at 25 squared for 2 hours. Mineral oil / Mystery oil / 20-50...????

Thanks again!!

[DaV8or]

Well, it is just what a few of you said the spline was stripped. I guess somewhere in the past year the gear was actuated with that red knob not in the back position. My mechanic called LASAR and they use a guy in Sacramento to rebuild/repair the part. $350 in parts plus labor....not good!!

Actually, that is good news! I didn't know LASAR could rebuild the part at all. Last I heard, you had to scrounge the earth for a good useable one and pay whatever the seller wanted. When I bought my plane, the bank that was selling the plane had just completed an annual and at that annual it was found that the shaft was stripped.

The guy who did the annual told me that they called all over the country and found the last one and then paid something like $3000, or some ridiculous price for it. This was in 2010 and I have to assume they called LASAR back then. I find it a relief that they can actually be rebuilt and $350 isn't much in the world of airplanes, or so I'm finding out.

[Marauder]

Thanks guys!!

Well, it is just what a few of you said the spline was stripped. I guess somewhere in the past year the gear was actuated with that red knob not in the back position. My mechanic called LASAR and they use a guy in Sacramento to rebuild/repair the part. $350 in parts plus labor....not good!! Can't wait to see what the total bill will be for this annual even know myself (owner) and a friend assisted with it. I added a Tanis heater, moved some oil breather lines, replaced all of the fuel lines (wow - those are expensive!!) and honed / re-ringed two cylinders to try and get the oil consumption to a normal level.

Any recommendations on breaking them in besides don't baby the engine....fly at 25 squared for 2 hours. Mineral oil / Mystery oil / 20-50...????

Thanks again!!

Good to hear that you were able to locate one. My biggest concern is parts availability for the airframe components as this fleet ages. I'm not surprised on the fuel lines. There is either a SB or AD out on the injector lines. If they are original, they should have been checked years ago. On my last annual I had one replaced, even though I had them all replaced when the first SB/AD came out. I think the part was somewhere around $100 this time around.

As for the break-in, IIRC you want them run for long periods and higher power settings. I'm sure others can recall their break-in procedures after top overhauls.

I'm really happy you found the spline!

[Alan Fox]

Consider yourself lucky , that you didnt discover this in the cockpit....... Food for thought....

[N601RX]

Any machine shop or toolroom that has a wire edm can cut any spline you need.

[mschmuff]

I'm almost positive the guy LASAR sent me to is just that - a machine shop! Which is even better cause I'm sure the labor rate is a lot less than an aviation shop!! And trust me...I realize $350 plus an hour or two of machine shop labor is a deal!! Flying a twin engine helicopter and seeing what this company spends on a fleet of 4 is insane!! I couldn't afford the fuel at 62gph!!

Still any advice as to what oil to use for break-in would be appreciated!!

Thanks again everyone!

[jetdriven]

Any recommendations on breaking them in besides don't baby the engine....fly at 25 squared for 2 hours. Mineral oil / Mystery oil / 20-50...????

Thanks again!!

Notes from a factory engine break-in.

Fly it at 65-75% power and vary the RPM every 15-30 minutes. If you fly at 4000' with full manifold pressure, and vary the RPM from 2200-2600 in cruise that does the percent power change for you. If you are a ROP operator, run it 80 degrees ROP and richer as required to keep the hottest CHT below 380 in cruise, I prefer 360 max for break-in because the rings run at a higher temperature than normal. If you are a LOP operator, run between 9-10.5 GPH LOP. Either of these methods keep high cylinder pressure for proper break-in.

Use Aeroshell oil 100 straight mineral oil or Philips X/C 20W50 straight mineral oil. No Ashless dispersant oil. After 50 hours, run what you want. We used X/C mineral oil for 50 hours, and then switched to Philips X/C AD oil.

Try to fly it at least a minimum of one hour per landing and the longer between landings, the better for it. Let down at full cruise power and plan to be at cruise speed at pattern altitude 5-7 NM before the airport. then reduce power to 22" and let it slow. When 2 NM from the airport, reduce power to 20", and let it slow further. Arrive on downwind at 120 MPH at 18". Then make a normal landing, but extend full flaps and gear early and use power to manage descent rate. This keeps cylinder pressure positive and the rings in contact with the cylinder walls until abeam the numbers.

[KSMooniac]

Consider yourself lucky , that you didnt discover this in the cockpit....... Food for thought....

Very true! Your gear will be locked up if this is the case... we should check the function/rigging of this spline every year at least, and be careful that it doesn't accidentally get engaged. It is too bad there isn't a positive lock-out for teh knob.

I generally agree with what Byron wrote, but would add the clarifications that your goal on break-in is to fly with the highest intra-cylinder pressures and lowest CHTs you can generate. The best way to do this is high power, LOP (ie low altitude for non-turbo engines) with the cowl flaps open. I flew my break-in flights at 3000-4000 feet, ~80% power LOP and was done in less than 5 hours. I used regular A/S 80W oil too in the spring time, no additives.