Electric gear conversion UNDO

[1964-M20E]

I know that there were many mid 60's models that were factory converted to electric gear before Money made it standard.(a mistake IMHO).

Has anyone heard of a plane being converted back to manual gear?

I would think that since it was an STC that if you had the parts or could fine them you could simply put the manual gear back in the plane and file a 337 letting the FAA know you removed the electric motors and installed the J-bar i.e returned it to its original configuration.

[Alan Fox]

It is not a 337 , it would be a log book entry ,

[1964-M20E]

Thanks

I'm real partial to the manual gear and some of the planes I've been looing at have the elecric conversion.

[carusoam]

Consider trying the electric first...

Option 1: it fails over time, then convert it. Make sure you test the manual system before going to failure....

Option 2: you like the motorized version...... You just might.

Just sayin'...,

How's your search progressing, what have you found?

Best regards,

-a-

[danb35]

I'm partial to the manual gear as well. OTOH, I can't imagine that it would be cost-effective to remove the electric gear parts and replace the manual parts--just seems like it would be a lot of money in both parts and labor for the job.

[1964-M20E]

Yes if I end up with one that was converted to electric I would keep the electric until it failed and then convert it back to manual. I would do the manual extension during each annual. By the way I have all the parts needed to convert it back to manual should the need arise.

There is something nostalgic about the manual gear with everything automatic today.

Reason why I like the manual gear:

1. The emergency extension procedure for the manual gear is exactly the same as the normal extension procedure
   
2. Non pilots are impressed by it
   
3. No electric motors to worry about
   
4. No gear ratios or ADs to worry about
   
5. Its simplicity almost has a Zen like feel to it
   
6. It was the original way Al designed it.
   

I've narrowed my search down to 3 different planes for now. I'm going to go look at one in AR this weekend. Anyone want to fly me from KNEW to M27 I'm buying fuel.

[rbridges]

I have a manual, too. Considering how much I pay to keep this thing flying, the simplicity of the johnson bar is nice. BUT, I sometimes wish I had the convenience of the electric gear.

[KSMooniac]

I like the manual gear as well, but I would NOT let it be a deal-breaker one way or the other for an otherwise good candidate airplane. You can get used to either system, and they are reliable and simple, unlike some other airplanes. Good luck with your search!

[1964-M20E]

At first I was shying away from the electric but I will consider it.

[N601RX]

It would only take a few parts that are readily available from salvage to convert a plane back to a manual gear, assuming that the quadrant style controls have not been added also. You should be able to sell the electric stuff that you take out and have money left over.

[Shadrach]

It would only take a few parts that are readily available from salvage to convert a plane back to a manual gear, assuming that the quadrant style controls have not been added also. You should be able to sell the electric stuff that you take out and have money left over.

Great minds think alike. If he already has the parts for a manual conversion it really should not be that bad. I'm guessing a couple AMUs. I would expect that the 'lectric gear bits would bring at least 1000 if they're serviceable. If it were me I'd weigh the value of selling good parts against running it to those parts die and then converting...

John,

How much weight does it save? IIRC, it's over 20lbs in savings...

[DaV8or]

Besides the finding of the parts and the labor involved, IIRC from when I was shopping a couple of years ago, there is also a paperwork headache too. If the plane was originally manual gear and converted later, then it's no big deal, just a log book entry, but if the plane was electric from the factory, then I think it involves the whole 337 and field approval deal.

[Shadrach]

Besides the finding of the parts and the labor involved, IIRC from when I was shopping a couple of years ago, there is also a paperwork headache too. If the plane was originally manual gear and converted later, then it's no big deal, just a log book entry, but if the plane was electric from the factory, then I think it involves the whole 337 and field approval deal.

Why would it involve a 337? They are factory parts, and the airframe was certified with those parts installed. I put wing mounted fuel tank gauges in my F. Those gauges were not even in existence when my plane built. Nonetheless, when I ordered the parts and went through the installation, Me, Mooney, Don Maxwell, and a friend that works at the Indy FSDO, all agreed that it was a log book entry. The only person who even raised the question of a 337 was my IA who works for a DOD company during the day. Those guys won't visit "the head" unless they file an amended personal weight and balance afterwards... At the end of the day, it was just a logbook entry.

[1964-M20E]

Why would it involve a 337? They are factory parts, and the airframe was certified with those parts installed. I put wing mounted fuel tank gauges in my F. Those gauges were not even in existence when my plane built. Nonetheless, when I ordered the parts and went through the installation, Me, Mooney, Don Maxwell, and a friend that works at the Indy FSDO, all agreed that it was a log book entry. The only person who even raised the question of a 337 was my IA who works for a DOD company during the day. Those guys won't visit "the head" unless they file an amended personal weight and balance afterwards... At the end of the day, it was just a logbook entry.

I agree with you but then why do you need a 337 to install a 201 windshield or any other IO-360 engine variant that was installed on any M20 model?

[Shadrach]

I think you could make a good case that there is no need for a 337 for a 201 windshield as long as it is installed it exactly as Mooney did, with only Mooney parts.The trouble is that it's not practical to convert that way, so we go to the aftermarket and thus need to go STC/337.

Power plants have a separate TCDS and has its own log. Powerplants are specifically approved for each model in the aircraft's TCDS.

[DaV8or]

I think you could make a good case that there is no need for a 337 for a 201 windshield as long as it is installed it exactly as Mooney did, with only Mooney parts.The trouble is that it's not practical to convert that way, so we go to the aftermarket and thus need to go STC/337.

Power plants have a separate TCDS and has its own log. Powerplants are specifically approved for each model in the aircraft's TCDS.

So basically you're saying that as long as I use all Mooney parts, I could turn my F into a J without filing any 337s?

[Shadrach]

So basically you're saying that as long as I use all Mooney parts, I could turn my F into a J without filing any 337s?

No, I'm not, it would likely be prudent to file a 337 with OKC as a notification of the change, but I think you could make a case for doing it without field approval. As the regs are written, I don't think it would qualify as a major alteration....

14 CFR Part 1.1

Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications -

(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or

(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Minor alteration means an alteration other than a major alteration.

Converting from electric to manual would be quite simple and doable using all Mooney parts, absolutley nothing that I can think of that would need to be cut or altered. Converting an F to a J would require cutting the fuselage as replacing the fuselage with J skins would not be practicle.

[N601RX]

In addition to part 1.1 cited above part 43 appendix A also list several things that are always considered a major repair or modification. The fact that it is a mooney part and used on a new model often means that you can get the 337 approved without having to provide the engineering data to support the change. The DER or FAA inspector can approve it by saying it has already been installed on a newer model and no more engineering work is necesary.

[scottfromiowa]

When I bought my E the Johnson Bar was a must have. I have never regretted having a J-Bar plane...that said if I had an electric gear aircraft I would NOT convert (even if I had the parts) until the gear failed.

[N201MKTurbo]

As long as the configuration is listed on the type certificate for your model, you can change things around to your harts content with just a logbook entry.

My first Mooney was a 67F that had manual gear and flaps, had that plane for 19 years. Now I have a 201 with electric gear and flaps (Dukes). I wish I had the Johnson Bar back!

Never had a problem with the manual gear.

With the electric gear, I disassemble the actuator every other annual, clean and re-lube it, takes about four hours.

Replaced the gears just after I bought the plane, no sign of any wear sense.

I have replaced two emergency extension couplers, I think I bought the last one on the planet last time. (My partner would bump the engagement lever with his knee and then extend the gear)

I had a brush fall out and had to use the emergency extension once.

I would love to put manual gear in my J, but it will not clear the center console.

[Shadrach]

So the question becomes, why hasn't some eccentric soul converted a 201 to manual gear?

[sreid]

So the question becomes, why hasn't some eccentric soul converted a 201 to manual gear?

Because it's easier to convert a manual gear F into a pseudo 201!