Need advice after annual left my plane damaged with other safety issues

[anthem4arequiem]

I know I am not here a lot, I tend to fall into a "black hole" when I dive into forums so I have been trying to avoid them. But I do appreciate the advice when I can get it. And sorry, this got a lot longer than intended. 

I have been using the same A&P since I bought my Mooney in 2020. And I will say up front that he does amazing work when he does the work. I believe the issue I find is that every year at annual, there is a new employee there that is a couple of weeks on the job. Usually the A&P is there as well, but this year he was only there on the last day after my plane had been there for two weeks. That is my speculation as to why the quality of work went down. 

My 50% partner and I always try and do owner assisted annual. Not only to bring the costs down but to just know the entire plane better. We typically get a hotel and work 2 days on the plane, removing all the panels and doing the "routine" items. Then we go home and the crew finished everything up. The first gripe was when we took the spinner off. It had not been off since last annual and was put back on when we were not there. The ring that the prop balance weight goes on was bent. I do not know what happened, but the last time it was exposed was in this shop. 

This annual took 2 weeks due to the 500 magneto inspection being due, so shipping time on that was the long pole in the tent. There is a whole other saga with the magneto (died 1.5 hours after install), but I am putting that all on the mag shop.  When I finally picked up the plane I did a quick flight over the airfield to check everything out. In the air, I noticed my fuel flow was displaying zero on my engine monitor. I guess I should have caught that on the ground, but it is not part of my normal prefight and run up (it is now) to cycle through the pages to get that number. So I landed and taxied back to the shop. When I got out I noticed a lot of oil, especially for a 15 minute flight. It was 1/2 a quart lower on the dipstick than when I started after I let the oil settle for a couple of hours while I was there.

So the new apprentice A&P and I took the cowling off to see what was going on. The first thing I saw was a (red) wire pulled out of a Molex connector that is pretty much right in front of your face on the pilot side.

 

This obviously didn't come off in flight, and looking on the runup and checkout sheet, there was no entry for fuel flow, so they just didn't finish the checklist. It had an entry for the drop off initial check, but not the after annual check. 

The next thing I noticed was the damage to the footwells on my firewall. We had them replace the engine mounts during annual. My partner and I were going to do this on the second day while at the shop, but the guy that was there asked us not to because we would mess it up and he would do it right. I can see the results. The pilot side I could live with, but the copilot made me really angry, especially when we see that the bolt is almost rounded off too. This plane has had the mounts replaced 4 times in it's life. This is the first time the firewall was damaged. 

 

But at this point I am just trying not to get angry and wanting to get my plane home. First, it was the 2 hours to replace the Molex connecter. Then troubleshooting revealed the source of my oil leak was the oil filter. After cutting the safety wire off we were able to tighten it about 1/4 turn by had before putting a wrench on it. I will claim that this is a bit on my partner and I. My partner put the oil filter on hand tight and left a note that it needs torqued and safety wired on the annual checklist. Since it was only 20 degrees in the shop he wanted it to be a bit warmer so that the rubber would make a good seal. The A&P told me that you can't catch that on runup since there isn't enough pressure to get around the gasket. This is when I was also told the story of how there was a major oil leak on the initial engine runup (I actually found oil on my tail, it was that bad) because the prop governor line remained disconnected after the engine mount replacement. Later this story changed. But at the time that was used as the excuse as to why they may not have caught the oil filter leak since there was already a huge oil mess and they didn't suspect 2 leaking components. 

After getting back home, I looked at everything on the airplane (one more item on that further down) and found two spinner screws had backed out, almost falling off, so not tightened at annual. Then I had my magneto die next flight and had to send it back out to CA for warranty. Like I said, this is not the fault of my A&P. It was discovered that one of the capacitors for the magneto (I have a single dual mag) was for a 6 cylinder, left and right had different part numbers. The mag shop replaced both capacitors for free since they sent the wrong one last time, but that is something I would hope my A&P should have noticed when he installed them last time. When the magnetos came back, I had a local A&P install them. As soon as he looked at the plane, before he even touched it, he asks "didn't you just get out of annual?" I say "yes, why?" and he just points. I said "I am missing some nuts" and he says "no, they are there"

        

During annual, they replaced the gasket at the end of the push rod tube and had to take that cover off. 

The final gripe. I can't prove this happened at annual, since I discovered it after I got home, but there was no event that I know of that could have caused it. But when I looked the whole plane over after getting home I found this gouge. 

Starboard wing just behind the tie down, or jack point. Whatever made this gouge went front and back several times, and also moved left and right a few times. It was not something that happened with the plane in motion. To me it looks like the jack was left under the plane when it was being repositioned. 

 

My approach was to let my A&P make things right. He knew about everything that had happened. But instead I ended up getting the most expensive annual bill I had ever had (even after discounts). He did warranty the magneto, meaning he paid the bill for the local A&P to install it (he actually rounded up to $200). The original invoice had 5 hours and 5 minutes for the Magneto install, he reduced that to 4 hours. The original invoice also that 15 hours 25 minutes to replace the engine mounts, which he reduced to 7 hours.  Taking the original labor from $5,523.82 down to $3,927.12. I am purposefully not including the cost of parts and fees. But that leaves 26 hours and 13 minutes of labor for doing the annual checklist (for owner assisted), and then 14.5 hours for repairs (after the discount applied). 

Here is the part that bugs me. He is not willing to budge on the bill. I got an estimate on what it would take to repair the footwells, and he just keeps saying "no, that is normal for Mooneys" and supplied pictures of two planes in which he had replaced the mounts. There was damage on those planes, but not nearly as bad as my copilot side. And like I said, both of them are planes he did the work on. For the items that caused safety issues (the oil leak, spinner screws, and nuts backing off on the cover) he just replied "The issues with the lock nuts, spinner screws, and transducer wiring were embarrassing quality mistakes and we are learning from those to reduce the chance of it happening again - and importantly, we corrected quality issues for you immediately." He did fix the oil leak and transducer wiring before I took off, but the other two were on me (and my local A&P). I see 3 issues that could have killed me and he just calls them embarrassing learning opportunities. 

At this point I should caveat the fact that my partner wanted to find a new A&P after last annual when we opened up the cowling to trace an oil leak (first time since last annual) and found a pair of plyers on top of the engine and the bottom spark plug on cylinder 4 was loose, less than finger tight. 

In a follow up email, he also said that he gave me a discount for the oil leak (which I can't find on the invoice) and said "(employee) did say the line on the governor was tight, he loosened it again and then retightened it. I'm not sure where the oil was coming from more, the governor or the oil filter, but I removed the extra hour for that part." Like I said, not reflected on the invoice, but now the story changed from the oil leak was from them leaving the prop governor line off, to it may from the oil filter all along and they know how to tighten lines. They just didn't fix it until I went flying.

 

I am mad about the safety issues and footwell damage. I want my footwell fixed. But also realizing it may be time to just walk away and close this chapter of my life.  Looking to see if anyone has had a similar issue and advice on what I should do. 

[hubcap]

My advice would be to chalk it up to experience and never go back, and explain to them exactly why you won’t be back. No need to raise voices or argue just let them know that you expect a good job and they are apparently unable to deliver that, so you will be taking your business somewhere else.

[Justin Schmidt]

The footwell damage normal. Only for idiots that don't know what they are doing. 

My right side is damaged from before i bought mine, just haven't fixed yet.  

Any mechanic that says something damaged is normal, run, because they will eventually kill you.

[DCarlton]

How will the footwells be repaired?  How much has to be disassembled to accomplish the repair?   Risk vs benefit if the same shop does the work?  If you have other options in your area … 

[varlajo]

Which shop did the magneto work? 

[OR75]

sorry to hear about this.  

Changing the engine mounts is actually not an easy task (not to be done by an apprentice) but doable without damaging the footwell. They likely try to force the donut and used the footwell as support for a lever. 

my learning from your writing is that it may is not always a good idea to have too many cooks in the kitchen (an oil filter needs to be fully installed and safety wired, not just placed then leave it for someone else to torque and for another one to safety wire - unless you have a huge "flag" there for the work to be finished)

[Fritz1]

As stated, pay the bill, walk away and explain to the shop why you are not coming back. Finding a competent mechanic will be more difficult. Nose around in your local area. The owner assist is a good idea, but it has to be done in a way that the mechanic makes more profit per hour than without the assist. I do all work in my hangar, passed A&P last fall, no IA, do annual together with IA who is an old salt and has full time job, pay $100/h, I do all the legwork, order parts, he always finds something that I do not think of. I treat the IA well, he is a friend of mine and his son worked for me for a while. Flying 100h per year, the Bravo requires about 200h of maintenance per year between annuals and replacing burnt out bulbs. The IA has forgotten more about airplanes than I will ever know, indispensable part of the operation. I keep fingers crossed that you find the right guy.

[Z W]

This experience is becoming more and more common unfortunately. Shops have more work than they can do. Some are taking on apprentices who are learning and have no business working on airplanes unsupervised. But they have to pay their employees and can't stay in business discounting the work or fixing things for free.

[anthem4arequiem]

7 hours ago, varlajo said:

Which shop did the magneto work? 

Aero Accessories. 

[Pinecone]

Which shop did the annual?  PM me if you don't want to post publically.

[redbaron1982]

15 hours ago, anthem4arequiem said:

My partner put the oil filter on hand tight and left a note that it needs torqued and safety wired on the annual checklist.

This is a no-no for me. Never ever leave something halfway done. Period. Hand-tightening things that are supposed to be torqued, whether it is an oil filter, nut, or whatever, and leaving it like this, is asking for disaster.

[anthem4arequiem]

1 hour ago, redbaron1982 said:

This is a no-no for me. Never ever leave something halfway done. Period. Hand-tightening things that are supposed to be torqued, whether it is an oil filter, nut, or whatever, and leaving it like this, is asking for disaster.

Absolutely agree. That was a process foul on our side.

However, I also think it is a no-no to put safety wire on a filter if you didn't check it. And I am also scratching my head on how the leak wasn't found on the run-up on the ground. According to my A&P, either it didn't leak on the ground because there isn't enough pressure to leak around the gasket, or there was a major oil leak and they just never found the source for sure. 

But yes. I admit we screwed up with putting on the oil filter. 

[Danb]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Which shop did the annual?  PM me if you don't want to post publically.

Since we’re from the mid Atlantic and northeast it’d be nice to know which place to avoid 

D

[Utah20Gflyer]

I’d probably pay the bill and move on.  It’s not that much money and unless you want to spend much much more out of pure principle to make someone do what’s right then it’s just going to waste more time and mental energy.  
 

That many mistakes is not acceptable and is a real safety issue.  You could have lost your airplane to an accident or even died.  Not trying to be melodramatic, just want to further impress upon you how risky flying the plane with that many issues was.   So certainly don’t go back to that mechanic.  One minor thing I could overlook but that was some egregious incompetence. 
 

My feedback for you would be de-cowl and inspect your engine after an annual.  You could have caught some things before you flew it.  I wouldn’t trust even a very good mechanic that much.  Even very thorough mechanics can miss things and another set of wyes can catch things. 
 

Sorry you had such a bad experience.  

[mooney2201]

I would just take him to court for shoddy work....only takes 1 hr to do the paper work...LET THE JUDGE SORT IT OUT AND GET A JUDGEMENT...BELIEVE ME ONCE HE GETS SERVED HE WILL PERSONALLY MAKE IT RIGHT..ITS MUCH CHEAPER FOR HIM....

[Justin Schmidt]

Like the good movie says, "doesn't mater what the truth is, only matters what you can prove"

[Joshua Blackh4t]

9 hours ago, mooney2201 said:

I would just take him to court for shoddy work....only takes 1 hr to do the paper work...LET THE JUDGE SORT IT OUT AND GET A JUDGEMENT...BELIEVE ME ONCE HE GETS SERVED HE WILL PERSONALLY MAKE IT RIGHT..ITS MUCH CHEAPER FOR HIM....

Had any experience with courts?

The judge probably has nil experience with mechanics, so you have to explain it to him like he/she is a small child. And you aren't an expert opinion, so you'll need to find an authority to write a report and pay for that. You'll need proof that nothing was damaged before. Then prove it was the shop etc.

Not defending the damage, just strongly not advocating courts

[201er]

On 5/5/2025 at 6:58 PM, anthem4arequiem said:

I have been using the same A&P since I bought my Mooney in 2020. And I will say up front that he does amazing work when he does the work. I believe the issue I find is that every year at annual, there is a new employee there that is a couple of weeks on the job. Usually the A&P is there as well, but this year he was only there on the last day after my plane had been there for two weeks. That is my speculation as to why the quality of work went down.

My approach was to let my A&P make things right. He knew about everything that had happened. But instead I ended up getting the most expensive annual bill I had ever had (even after discounts). He did warranty the magneto, meaning he paid the bill for the local A&P to install it (he actually rounded up to $200). The original invoice had 5 hours and 5 minutes for the Magneto install, he reduced that to 4 hours. The original invoice also that 15 hours 25 minutes to replace the engine mounts, which he reduced to 7 hours.  Taking the original labor from $5,523.82 down to $3,927.12. I am purposefully not including the cost of parts and fees. But that leaves 26 hours and 13 minutes of labor for doing the annual checklist (for owner assisted), and then 14.5 hours for repairs (after the discount applied).

But also realizing it may be time to just walk away and close this chapter of my life.  Looking to see if anyone has had a similar issue and advice on what I should do. 

If you've been going a few years and you've been happy with the work, you may be better off just sucking it up. It's a lot worse when you have someone do terrible work and terribly overcharge you on everything. There are loads of shops that will do a bad job, not fix what they mess up, and overcharge you too.

There are plenty of shops that would charge every hour of work and then some. I've had shops round up every minute of work to like a quarter hour minimum. They end up doing 10x under 5 minute tasks that don't even add up to an hour but then bill you 2.5 hours by rounding it all up to the quarter hour minimum.

There's no shop that won't mess something up doing maintenance. The difference is how they handle it, how they bill it, and how frequently they mess up. Definitely avoid the shops that are messing things up all the time and don't make things right. Sounds like you actually got a pretty good deal financially and a discount. Not an expensive annual to begin with.

Going to a new shop is a risk (may be better, may be worse) and you're guaranteed to get hit with a huge bill the first year when they insist on doing everything different than the last one. You're in for a real treat if you walk away and look for another shop. Could get lucky but odds are you'll get screwed by a couple other shops before you find a decent one or end up going back and realizing you had it pretty good.

[kortopates]

On 5/6/2025 at 9:20 AM, anthem4arequiem said:

Absolutely agree. That was a process foul on our side.
However, I also think it is a no-no to put safety wire on a filter if you didn't check it. And I am also scratching my head on how the leak wasn't found on the run-up on the ground. According to my A&P, either it didn't leak on the ground because there isn't enough pressure to leak around the gasket, or there was a major oil leak and they just never found the source for sure. 
But yes. I admit we screwed up with putting on the oil filter. 

You’d be surprised, at least i was after i rescued an experimental aircraft pilot of his honeymoon no less in Mexico. He flew it down after an oil change without an any leaks, visited a couple airports before it started leaking. He flew to where he was hoping he could limp home but lost a couple quarts in 20 min. You already know what happened but I didn’t know he had done a recent oil change when i started helping him find the source of the oil leak. I really thought that plane wasn't going anywhere for awhile. But i found the source very quickly and when i removed the safety wire i was more than shocked i didn’t need a wrench on the filter to twist it off. So point is it may not be leaking right away even though it will gush oil out pretty soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited May 10, 2025 by kortopates

[toto]

3 hours ago, kortopates said:

You’d be surprised, at least i was after i rescued an experimental aircraft pilot of his honeymoon no less in Mexico. He flew it down after an oil change without an any leaks, visited a couple airports before it started leaking. He flew to where i was hoping he could limp home but lost a couple quarts in 20 min. You already know what happened but I didn’t know he had done a recent oil change when i started helping to find the oil leak. But i found the source very quickly and when i removed the safety wire i was more than shocked i didn’t need to a wrench on the filter to twist it off. So point is it may not be leaking right away even though it will gush oil out pretty soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kind of surprised that you found safety wire at all

Some of the experimental folks are notorious for skipping the safety wire on oil filters. 

[jeremyc209]

I would let the owner know everything you posted here, and based on their reaction/effort to correct the situation, leave a detailed review of the shop on Google. You certainly don't have to let them continue working on your plane, but they should be given the opportunity attempt to make it right and if they come up short, you should let others know about your experience with a review. 
 

[Yetti]

I will just say kudos for taking a flight above the airport and then checking things.    Provide a list of things so the Owner can have a coaching session with the trainee.    Really need to get check and recheck in the new person head.

Find a new shop.

[dkkim73]

Anyone who has done any mechanical work has multiple stories about things they have forgot or subtly mis-installed. 

People and the world aren't perfect. 

But.  There are approaches to using imperfect humans to do high reliability things. I think you should be skeptical of "well, it's hard". 

Your story has a lot of lefty-loosey, a distressing lack of righty-tighty, and what sounds like an attitude to QA that was pretty laissez-faire.

I would have a hard time trusting that work. 

[DXB]

"Trust is earned in drops and lost in buckets." -Kevin Kelly.

Unless you are retired and have nothing better to do, I'd cut your losses and move on. Maybe spend the extra effort on building a relationship with a new shop you can trust.  Sadly, your story is not uncommon.  My previous trusted shop had done reliable and sometimes exceptional quality work for me for years. Then came the year of the ADSB mandate.  An excellent younger A&P had just left, and the capable  senior IA in the shop was instructed to rake in as much $$$ as possible by doing one ads-b install after another.  That IA, who I had known for years and trusted, went out of his way to emphasize me when I brought in the plane that he wouldn't be signing off my annual this year - I later understood why and wished that I had taken his subtle hint to turn around and run.  My annual was signed off by another IA I'd never met, and the work was complete garbage - worse than that described in this thread.  The shop owner acted indifferent to the situation - I coerced whatever remediation I could out of him (which was painfully little), paid my bill, and moved on.  You can forgive a shop that screws up but not an owner without integity.

[mooney2201]

In my expert opinion...once you get a summons to appear in court...it can only go two ways for the shop...PAY dearly for shoddy work...OR MAKE IT RIGHT...AND ITS CHEAPER FOR THE SHOP TO MAKE REPAIRS RIGHT...LOOK WHAT HE DID TO YOUR AIRCRAFT...IF HE HAS INSURANCE THEY WILL PAY...AND IF NOT MAKE THE REPAIRS RIGHT...HE ONLY HAS TWO CHOICES...HES NOT IN A GOOD POSITION...