Extreme cold temperature winterization

[jlunseth]

I have not inventoried the many things in the engine compartment that are not a part of or directly attached to the engine, but there are probably several other than the air/oil separator on which I learned my lesson. The brake reservoir and related stuff is probably happier if the fluid is not completely congealed, etc. I liked the earlier post about warming the entire plane in a hangar which would warm everything but it raises another issue. A few years ago we had a really excellent pilot/instructor who put on Saturday morning seminars at Modern Avionics at KFCM. He did one on cold temp ops. One of the things that stuck with me was the choice between heat soaking and cold soaking an aircraft before a cold weather flight. So, basically, icing occurs when the temps are between +5 and -15 degrees. Warmer and no ice is likely, colder and any moisture has generally already found a way to freeze in the atmosphere. So if, for example, one wanted to take off and fly through a thin layer of clouds with possible icing, which we get around here quite a bit during the winter, and the ground temps are at around freezing, warm soaking the plane in a hangar the night before would help. The airfoils would be warm at takeoff and would discourage the formation of ice. But if taking off in super cold temps and, say, climbing into the flight levels, cold soaking is preferable because having warm surfaces would melt the ice crystals onto the wings where they refreeze into icing, whereas cold surfaces would not have the same effect. I don’t have a choice to warm soak so have not practiced this alot, and the pilot/instructor was flying turbine aircraft at the time so the issue is somewhat different than what we piston pilots experience, but I thought it was worth mentioning. 

Oh, and don’t forget to bring a windshield scraper/brush and a rag. I have had frost form on the wings in International Falls at -10dF in about an hour. Even better would be a garden sprayer with TKS.

[exM20K]

11 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Even better would be a garden sprayer with TKS.

A garden sprayer with RV antifreeze would be a cheaper and environmentally safer option. 
-dan

[jlunseth]

15 hours ago, exM20K said:

A garden sprayer with RV antifreeze would be a cheaper and environmentally safer option. 
-dan

I would certainly go with cheaper. I have not tried what you suggest. All I can add is that when TKS first came out, the immediate question was whether it would corrode parts on an aircraft. The discussion I remember is that the fluid would run back and embed in things like aileron and elevator joints, where there are different metals. I have not ever heard of that happening with TKS and I imagine (but do no know for sure) that it has been tested and found non-corrosive. Something not tested for aircraft use would be an unknown. I just don't know what the effect would be, can't say one way or the other. RV antifreeze is supposed to be safe for the environment, we use it in our sailboat every winter, but what its effect is in multi-metal situations I just don't know.

[Pinecone]

I guess you have not seen the reports of TKS fluid causing corrosion.  Especially if the fluid is a couple of years old.

[exM20K]

9 hours ago, jlunseth said:

I would certainly go with cheaper. I have not tried what you suggest. All I can add is that when TKS first came out, the immediate question was whether it would corrode parts on an aircraft. The discussion I remember is that the fluid would run back and embed in things like aileron and elevator joints, where there are different metals. I have not ever heard of that happening with TKS and I imagine (but do no know for sure) that it has been tested and found non-corrosive. Something not tested for aircraft use would be an unknown. I just don't know what the effect would be, can't say one way or the other. RV antifreeze is supposed to be safe for the environment, we use it in our sailboat every winter, but what its effect is in multi-metal situations I just don't know.

TKS is corrosive for sure.  I had a spot on the leading edge inboard bottom of one horizontal stabilizers, just aft of the panel.  I’m good about spraying Corrosion. Inside the tail after a TKS flight.  I’ve heard reports of others, too.  No big deal, but you have to stay on top of it. Bonanza and baron wing spars with their piano hinge fastening also require close monitoring.  I don’t recall the corrosion mechanism exactly, but I believe it has something to do with the hydrotropic nature of the fluid entraining water on surfaces.

The pink RV antifreeze is made of propylene glycol, which is non-corrosive and pet/wildlife safe for incidental contact. TKS fluid is nasty stuff, and I’ve become increasingly mindful in using off-label or handling it.

-dan

[65MooneyPilot]

Type 1 deicing fluid is propylene glycol mixed with water 50/50 mix heated to 150 degrees F. Good for removing ice contamination on the airplane. Many years ago we had a 55 gallon drum of it with a band clamp heater on the drum. We put it in a weed sprayer and sprayed it on the top of MD-80 wings before they installed heaters. This is a good deicing solution. Obviously if it is still precipitating you cancel the flight if you don’t have FIKI capability.

[jlunseth]

2 hours ago, 65MooneyPilot said:

Obviously if it is still precipitating you cancel the flight if you don’t have FIKI capability.

Yes, we were talking about removing frost that forms on aircraft on the ground in cold weather.

[65MooneyPilot]

50 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Yes, we were talking about removing frost that forms on aircraft on the ground in cold weather.

Yes, then type 1 deicing fluid is for you.