A Dipstick problem

[Alan Maurer]

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.

At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.

Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who know why this can happen???

If the airplane did not really needing oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.

Alan

[Alan Maurer]

2 minutes ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.

At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.

Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who knows why this can happen???

If the airplane did not really need oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.

Alan

 

[Shadrach]

30 minutes ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.

At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.

Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who know why this can happen???

If the airplane did not really needing oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.

Alan

Your post is confusing. Where is the puddle coming from? Seems implausible that oil leaked out of the crank case unless there’s a hole somewhere. The breather outlet is located well above the oil level. So the question is, where is the oil coming from and what does the dipstick currently say? You have oil leaking when the sump reaches a certain level or when you add oil and the question is why? My wild ass guess from your post is that the dipstick tube is cracked and leaking whenever you add oil. Did the oil spill look like fresh oil?.
 

 

[buddy]

You have to make sure that the oil funnel you’re using is pushed down into the dip stick tube if you don’t that’s what happens 

[Paul Thomas]

40 minutes ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.

At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.

Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who know why this can happen???

If the airplane did not really needing oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.

Alan

Since we don't know how many hours were flown between the oil change (8 quarts) and a 6 quart pre-flight, it may be perfectly normal. My engine loses oil quickly if overfilled (over 6).

The engine being 1/2 quart low when the engine has just run is normal. If you checked it again later, you would be back at 6.

That leaves us with the oil puddle. Did it leak right away when you filled it or did it take some time? Was it fresh cold oil or warm dirty oil? It's hard to give a useful opinion without more information.

[Graf_Aviator]

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.
At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.
Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who know why this can happen???
If the airplane did not really needing oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.
Alan

My Ovation spits out oil via the crankcase breather tube when I pour it too fast.
So now I give the oil a little time to flow down, I no more put the bottles into the oil filler neck top down. Problem solved.

Also with the IO550 it takes time for all the oil to get down into the oil pan after running the engine. My plane sometimes needs almost 2 days till everything is back in the pan and the dipstick shows the right amount of oil. When I refill before that, my engine just blows out anything above 6 quarts and I have it on the belly of the plane.

So maybe just give it some time ?

Cheers TC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.

At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.

Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who know why this can happen???

If the airplane did not really needing oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.

Alan

 

59 minutes ago, buddy said:

You have to make sure that the oil funnel you’re using is pushed down into the dip stick tube if you don’t that’s what happens 

Right.  There is a vent on the filler neck (yellow circle on IO-550G below) .  The orange hose on that vent is connected to the vent that you see coming out the left side bottom of plane.  If the funnel is not in the filler tube past the vent hole and you pour oil too fast, it will burp back through the vent (path of least resistance).  I have an IO-550A with a taller filler neck and it happens.

 

Edited August 13 by 1980Mooney

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hello Mooney People, At my recent annual , unfortunately the #1 cylinder ( IO550 ) was exchanged. There was a crack. All is running well with good CHTs and good EGTs.

At annual will change , eight quarts of oil were put back in. BUT....dipstick yesterday only showing six. Flew to Naples and back yesterday and today checked oil.

Dipstick. showed 5.5! So...I added one quart and a 12 inch puddle ran out the little tube next to the left exhaust. So...Who know why this can happen???

If the airplane did not really needing oil added why did it read so low??? Thanks Everyone.

Alan

On the IO-550 or the TSIO-550 if you check the oil after a flight it will always read low. A day or two later the indicated level will be as much as two quarts difference. 

[PeteMc]

As others have said, when you check the oil after a flight, expect it to be low.  In my TSIO-360 it can take hours for the oil to finally make it's way out of the engine so I know how much oil I really have.  On a typical daily flight I expect to be down at least to 6 quarts, maybe even 5.5. 

My preflight also includes a quick belly check.  If there is oil on the belly or if the exhaust side looks like a lot of smoke came out, then I may wait a bit longer to see if the oil on the dipstick slowly goes up.  And I never put more than 7 quarts in AFTER I know everything has settled.  Any more and I just blow it out the breather tube, even with an oil separator.

 

 

Edited August 13 by PeteMc

[Pinecone]

42 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

On the IO-550 or the TSIO-550 if you check the oil after a flight it will always read low. A day or two later the indicated level will be as much as two quarts difference. 

Same with the TSIO-360. 

I don't bother worrying about the oil unless the plane has been able to sit for several hours.  If there is any showing on the dipstick, that is good. 

After overnight, the level reads as expected.

[GeeBee]

I only pour the oil in with a long neck funnel that way it isolates the breather tube.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I only pour the oil in with a long neck funnel that way it isolates the breather tube.

Me, too, because it less messy. It also limits the flow rate pretty effectively. Being a CSOB, I use the large funnel from the $2 Harbor Freight set.

[GeeBee]

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/flotool/tools---equipment/oil---lube-tools/funnels/9227a0a2bf37/hopkins-flotool-blue-plastic-funnel/hop5/10701/v/a/5340/automotive-truck-2002-ford-f-250-super-duty?q=funnel&pos=2

 

[Alan Maurer]

Hi Everyone, I did use a wide mouth short neck funnel. I will switch to a long neck funnel. My dipstick is a stick , not a tube, The oil ran 

out the drain. closet the exhaust on the left...not the case. The plane been sitting overnight and the engine was not still warm.  Perhaps it is just using the wrong funnel and pouring too fast, 

but the oil is fresh and right after the new oil change, I thought it would read seven or more and not as low as  five?? I thought the day after flying that the oil

would read correctly on the dipstick. 

Thanks 

Alan

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hi Everyone, I did use a wide mouth short neck funnel. I will switch to a long neck funnel. My dipstick is a stick , not a tube, The oil ran 

out the drain. closet the exhaust on the left...not the case. The plane been sitting overnight and the engine was not still warm.  Perhaps it is just using the wrong funnel and pouring too fast, 

but the oil is fresh and right after the new oil change, I thought it would read seven or more and not as low as  five?? I thought the day after flying that the oil

would read correctly on the dipstick. 

Thanks 

Alan

My oil dip stick reads 1 qt lower than what i put in every oil change. I chalk it up to filling the oil filter as i only run the engine for 2 mins after the oil change and that is at idle to boot. No way 1 qt went out the breather and no leaks after the run up. And this is after several days i check the level. I thought i was miss counting but after a couple more oil changes with triple checking the number of oil qt bottles i have come to realize my oil filter holds a qt of oil. 

[Hank]

27 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

My oil dip stick reads 1 qt lower than what i put in every oil change. . .  i have come to realize my oil filter holds a qt of oil. 

Every oil change I make, I put in 7 quarts and make one flight around the pattern to verify no leaks. On subsequent flights, it's never more than a touch above 6 on the dipstick. 

[Will.iam]

5 minutes ago, Hank said:

Every oil change I make, I put in 7 quarts and make one flight around the pattern to verify no leaks. On subsequent flights, it's never more than a touch above 6 on the dipstick. 

So my question when they say 5 qt min for flight is that including the qt in the oil filter or 5qt on the dip stick which really means 6 qt in the engine with 1 qt sitting in the oil filter?

 

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

So my question when they say 5 qt min for flight is that including the qt in the oil filter or 5qt on the dip stick which really means 6 qt in the engine with 1 qt sitting in the oil filter?

 

I go by the reading on the lipstick, knowing there's a quart in the filter and dripping through the engine. 

So I put in 7 quarts at oil change, and add a quart somewhere between 5 and 5-1/2, adding at the higher level just before long flights. But I'll happily make a lunch run at 5 quarts.

[cliffy]

What Mooney says and what Lycoming says are 2 different things

On the O-360 min oil by Lycoming is about 2 1/2 quarts! The Mooney book is higher :-)

[MikeOH]

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/flotool/tools---equipment/oil---lube-tools/funnels/9227a0a2bf37/hopkins-flotool-blue-plastic-funnel/hop5/10701/v/a/5340/automotive-truck-2002-ford-f-250-super-duty?q=funnel&pos=2

 

$2.49???

That can't possibly be legal for aircraft use!

[Will.iam]

9 hours ago, MikeOH said:

$2.49???

That can't possibly be legal for aircraft use!

But it does make the nomination running for best CB product of the year award!

[Vance Harral]

11 hours ago, cliffy said:

On the O-360 min oil by Lycoming is about 2 1/2 quarts! The Mooney book is higher :-)

It's important to distinguish between the quantity required for proper lubrication at any given instant, and the ability to maintain that minimum quantity over the course of a long flight.  The quantity of oil necessary for proper lubrication (and cooling) is quite small.  But the manufacturer of an airplane with long legs must publish recommendations based on completing a flight over the airplane's maximum range, with worst-normal-case oil consumption.

I confess I don't fully understand the intersection of engine and airframe certification regulations in this respect.  But in practice, the "minimum oil" you need to commence a flight depends on how long you expect to fly (with reserves, of course), and the rate at which your engine consumes oil.  Like so many other things in aviation, this can be a complicated analysis, and it's up to the PIC to decide.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

I confess I don't fully understand the intersection of engine and airframe certification regulations in this respect.  But in practice, the "minimum oil" you need to commence a flight depends on how long you expect to fly (with reserves, of course), and the rate at which your engine consumes oil.  Like so many other things in aviation, this can be a complicated analysis, and it's up to the PIC to decide.

The airframe TCDS and limitations override the engine documentation, since the airframe includes any installation issues, etc.     So the minimum oil limitation is what's in the airframe documentation in the limitations sections, etc.     The engine limitations are informative as to what the engine can really do.