A/P cert question and scenario

[Mcstealth]

Good evening.

Here is my situation and question.

I have sold all restaurants and other concerns. I now have time and money to actually fly where before I had zero time. I have found myself helping other owners working on their planes, doing what I can to help get the plane back in the air quicker. I have experienced first hand how much time is burned up waiting on A/P's to make progress on any and all given projects. I am not talking about waiting on parts. Waiting on the wheels to turn is like pulling teeth to me. Everybody has experienced this I am sure.

That is the situation, now for the question.

I have half a mind to go enroll in the Hallmark A/P 16 month course in San Antonio located at SAT. The other half of my mind says go ask for a job at Dugosh, be an apprentice and get real time GA experience while logging A/P hours. 

The end goal is, when I do get the flying club started at Kerrville and have more than one plane, the club will have a leg up on keeping the assets flying. That's what I envision at least.

I am about to be 59 yrs old, my wife is supportive either way, though she likes the Dugosh path better.

Which way would you go?

Thanks

David

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

They both sound good. Enjoy the ride.

[Mcstealth]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

They both sound good. Enjoy the ride.

You're no help.

[EricJ]

I started A&P school when I was 58, so I can relate.    Imho you'll have a lot better breadth of education and deeper understanding of the profession and the regs if you go to a school.   Don't think you won't have exposure to practical stuff, because most of the schools are staffed by old grizzled A&Ps that are there because they want to share all of that experience with you.   I went to school rather than try to test out because I wanted half a chance of knowing what I was doing or being able to recognize things, and for me it was the right way to go.    I've been wrenching, including on airplanes, since I was a teenager, and I still had a ton of fun and learned a lot in school.   I'd do it that way again if I had to.

I also just this year helped a friend study to test out of the written exams and then prep for the O&Ps, all of which he passed the first time.   He's owned a bunch of different airplanes, including experimentals, and done a lot of work himself, and only just wanted to be able to sign off the Condition Inspections on his warbird himself.   That works well for him.

Either way can get you there.   I'd go take a close look at the school and see if you get a sense of whether you'd like it.    Another advantage of a school is that you'll be very well prepared for the exams and O&Ps, and many schools have a DME on staff (usually one of the instructors), which can also be good.

[TCC]

If you’re considering Hallmark, maybe explore Alamo Colleges A&P program, but I think that’s way down by Kelly Field, which is a hike if your coming from anywhere north of 1604.

[Mcstealth]

13 hours ago, TCC said:

If you’re considering Hallmark, maybe explore Alamo Colleges A&P program, but I think that’s way down by Kelly Field, which is a hike if your coming from anywhere north of 1604.

Thank you for the info. It seems that's a two year program.

[EricJ]

37 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Thank you for the info. It seems that's a two year program.

I think most of them are two academic years.    Mine was five semesters, one for generals, two for airframe, two for powerplant.   You stay for the summer semester, so you're done in two academic years.    We were able to test for airframe after the first three semesters, then add powerplant after the last two.

[cliffy]

To go the "experience" route instead of school you have to log two years time (hrs) in a log book with what you did along with an A&P sign off on each page.

My friend just did it . FAA requirements. You have to set it up with the FSDO ahead of time. 

As mentioned the A&P school is what I would recommend  ( I did mine 55 years ago)  

You can do either but the school will give you a better overall outcome. 

Forgot to add- a lot of the time required is also to "weed out" those not dedicated to doing things the right way. Remember, when you get your A&P you can go out on your own with no supervision. Only your own code of responsibility to do things correctly. 

[N201MKTurbo]

7 hours ago, cliffy said:

To go the "experience" route instead of school you have to log two years time (hrs) in a log book with what you did along with an A&P sign off on each page.

My friend just did it . FAA requirements. You have to set it up with the FSDO ahead of time. 

As mentioned the A&P school is what I would recommend  ( I did mine 55 years ago)  

You can do either but the school will give you a better overall outcome. 

Forgot to add- a lot of the time required is also to "weed out" those not dedicated to doing things the right way. Remember, when you get your A&P you can go out on your own with no supervision. Only your own code of responsibility to do things correctly. 

I didn’t do any of that and they let me take the test. All I had were letters of recommendation saying I worked that much. (30 months), it was more like 30  years… the inspector said they would need to start legal proceedings to dispute my letters.

[Andy95W]

7 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I didn’t do any of that and they let me take the test. All I had were letters of recommendation saying I worked that much. (30 months), it was more like 30  years… the inspector said they would need to start legal proceedings to dispute my letters.

That’s like mine from 25 years ago.  The FSDO quizzed me for about 2 hours to make sure I knew what I was talking about, then said, “well, if Sam says you’re okay, you’re probably okay.” Then they signed my authorization to take the tests.

[cliffy]

7 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I didn’t do any of that and they let me take the test. All I had were letters of recommendation saying I worked that much. (30 months), it was more like 30  years… the inspector said they would need to start legal proceedings to dispute my letters.

That's interesting  never heard of that happening  Congrats!!!

 

36 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

That’s like mine from 25 years ago.  The FSDO quizzed me for about 2 hours to make sure I knew what I was talking about, then said, “well, if Sam says you’re okay, you’re probably okay.” Then they signed my authorization to take the tests.

Same here!  Glad it worked easier for you than my friend recently   But he had a nice work log book in the end :-)

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

That’s like mine from 25 years ago.  The FSDO quizzed me for about 2 hours to make sure I knew what I was talking about, then said, “well, if Sam says you’re okay, you’re probably okay.” Then they signed my authorization to take the tests.

You got off easy, they quizzed me for 4 hours.

[mike_elliott]

Some community colleges offer A&P classes for free once you hit 60....

Dang, going to miss those good steaks....

 

[hammdo]

I’d like to fine one here in DFW!

-Don

[M20F]

The regulations are the key.  I would go to school and focus on paperwork in a structured environment.  Dugosh as far as I know isn’t splitting cases, doing their own mags, props, etc.  That is all going to get sent out.  At a school you will work on those things.  
 
School + part time at Dugosh would be the best bet.  

[Shadrach]

14 hours ago, M20F said:

The regulations are the key.  I would go to school and focus on paperwork in a structured environment.  Dugosh as far as I know isn’t splitting cases, doing their own mags, props, etc.  That is all going to get sent out.  At a school you will work on those things.  
 
School + part time at Dugosh would be the best bet.  

Many shops used to do field overhauls and repairs of both engines and mags. There are still several A&Ps on my field that will repair mags. I am grateful to one of them that helped me avoid scrubbing a trip by replacing a bad coil same day.

[Fritz1]

I passed my written this summer and scrounged up hours working on airplanes part time since I was 16, am 63 now, plan to take the oral / practical in spring when I will hopefully find 2-3 days to study. I will continue to work on my own airplane while consulting with people that have forgotten more about airplanes than I will ever know, not a whole lot changes besides me signing the logbooks myself, If I had the time available and were able to do it over again I would go a combo route, scrounge as much hours from the past as I can, work full time in shop where I can learn the most in the time available to come up with the missing hours, take some classes at night or online that are of particular interest to me. Personally I would focus on avionics as a retirement job because there I see the greatest deficiency and also the greatest opportunity, however working on your own airplane is totally different from working on somebody else's, you know your bird, you are your own test pilot, when you say cost and time is not an issue, then they are not an issue and you can get your widget any way you want, if it takes redoing something 3 times to get it right, your call, in a commercial environment this does not work. Overall getting your own A&P is a probably a good idea. Enjoy the journey! 

[M20F]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Many shops used to do field overhauls and repairs of both engines and mags. There are still several A&Ps on my field that will repair mags. I am grateful to one of them that helped me avoid scrubbing a trip by replacing a bad coil same day.

Current rate I heard a month ago is $15K for case splitting insurance, thus not cost effective for most small shops anymore. 

[Greg Ellis]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:05 PM, hammdo said:

I’d like to fine one here in DFW!

-Don

I am not sure if they offer classes for free to anyone over 60 but one of the best A&P schools around is at Tarrant County College.  They hold the actual classes out at Alliance Airport.  The day course is 2 years and the night course is 3 years.  They also have add on courses to specialize in avionics or composites, etc...  I was enrolled and started but I could not make it work.  My office is in Southwest Fort Worth.  The evening classes started around 4 pm.  They have a very strict no absence, no tardiness policy and there was no way I could guarantee making it to class on time every day coming from work at that time with traffic so I was not able to do it.  But it is an excellent program.  Tons of different aircraft and engines, etc... that you do hands on work on.

[hammdo]

I did look at this one but the schedule part is very tough for the same reason, traffic from Carrollton.

Thanks!

-Don