Time to reseal the tanks

[Henry Hochberg]

Looks like it's time to reseal the tanks on our Bravo.

So far we've heard about Wet Wingologists and Weep No More.  Any one know of something on the West Coast that does a good job?

Thanks!

 

Henry H.

N355RZ@KPAE (Paine Fielld, Everett, WA)

 

 

[Ragsf15e]

11 minutes ago, Henry Hochberg said:

Looks like it's time to reseal the tanks on our Bravo.

So far we've heard about Wet Wingologists and Weep No More.  Any one know of something on the West Coast that does a good job?

Thanks!

 

Henry H.

N355RZ@KPAE (Paine Fielld, Everett, WA)

 

 

They use to do them at Advanced in kttd, but I heard he doesn’t do full seals anymore.  He probably knows who does though, and Greg is good to talk to there.

[Fritz1]

There is one more guy in TX that reseals tanks for a living, mine were done at Weep no More 6 years ago, no leaks, booked usually 6-9 months out, but cancellations in between now and then, I recommend them

[GeeBee]

I just had Wet Wingologists East do mine. First rate work. Maybe a road trip in your future?

[mike_elliott]

Long time no ping Black Cloud. 

Two words... Weep no More.

Founding sponsor of the Mooney Summit, best in the business 

[gmonnig]

Weep no more, in Wilmer MN. Paul is an awesome guy and seems to truly likes what he does. 

[M20F]

I was going to reseal mine.  Paul never answered phone or returned VM’s.  Ended up with Maxwell (who I believe licenses the weep no more tech) just reseal at annual for like $500.  My tanks don’t leak and I am happy I didn’t spend a million AMU’s I didn’t need to. 
 
Moral of the story is perhaps a patch is in order versus a full reseal.  

[hammdo]

Mine is at Maxwells now for a patch… for the same reason vs strip/reseal

-Don

[Henry Hochberg]

How can you tell if a patch will be sufficient versus a reseal?

We're going to have the plane painted and we want to do the tanks before the paint. If we patch and it starts to leak it will mess up the paint (so I'm told).

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

 (who I believe licenses the weep no more tech) 

It’s hard to imagine they have a patent on it. Just go to the hardware store and build one. It is just copper pipe, sprinkler heads and a pump with a catch basin. You need to make some bottom plates to direct the liquid into the catch basin without running along the bottom of the wing. It is just fancy paint stripper.

[hammdo]

I guess it depends on how big the leak is and what condition the current sealer is. The SMM (Service Maintenance Manual) shows the various types of leaks. If it’s a big leak, reseal may be required. 
 

For me, the leaks are not huge so patch makes sense. 
 

For me, I can do a lot of patches vs full reseal cost. Since you’re painting, it may make sense. May be worth to get a patch to see if the sealant is good or if it is recommended to reseal. Mine was resealed in the 80’s and so far, the owners who did patches, the sealant is doing well…

-Don

[StevenL757]

12 minutes ago, Henry Hochberg said:

How can you tell if a patch will be sufficient versus a reseal?

We're going to have the plane painted and we want to do the tanks before the paint. If we patch and it starts to leak it will mess up the paint (so I'm told).

It depends on how many times the tanks have been patched, at what sizes and locations, and by whom.  Not trying to spend your $$ for you, but too many patches will result in you chasing your tail, risking bigger and more frequent leaks by the sheer nature of patching around good or bad sealant, and spending unnecessary amounts of money.

As others have echoed here, give Paul Beck a call.  You’ll need to notify any paint shop you choose that your tanks have recently been sealed so they can work around it; else, they will likely remove sealant during the paint stripping process, and your lovely new tank seal job will leak.

Paul has done work for me in the past, and his quality has never wavered.

[N201MKTurbo]

19 minutes ago, Henry Hochberg said:

How can you tell if a patch will be sufficient versus a reseal?

We're going to have the plane painted and we want to do the tanks before the paint. If we patch and it starts to leak it will mess up the paint (so I'm told).

It’s hard to tell till you get into the tanks. Weather you repair the tanks or completely reseal them, you should have some time between repair and repaint to make sure the job worked.

As I’ve said many times, there is no procedure in the service manual for patching the tanks. There is a procedure for repairing a leak. When done properly, it is as good as the original sealant. 
 

FWIW, I’m working with another MS’er to repair his tanks. We did the left tank first and it has been leak free ever since. We had to repair the right one too. It will be sealed up sometime soon. It was resealed by one of the shops mentioned above. It had bubbles in the sealant along all the seams. I don’t think they rinsed the stripper out well enough. 

[PT20J]

I believe Maxwell has done a LOT of repairs. It might be worth a trip to consult if you are on the fence.

Houston Tank Specialists generally attends MooneyMAX. I've talked to them and they seem to know what they are doing but I don't have any actual pireps.

[Fritz1]

any of the 3 major tank repair shops will make an assessment if a repair is worthwhile before they strip, age of sealant, how often patched before, typically patch is not worthwhile if sealant is older than 20 years, after reseal key to success is to keep tanks full, sealant today is typically better than products used 20 years ago

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, Henry Hochberg said:

How can you tell if a patch will be sufficient versus a reseal?

We're going to have the plane painted and we want to do the tanks before the paint. If we patch and it starts to leak it will mess up the paint (so I'm told).

Probably a good idea to go for the whole enchilada.  At a MooneyMax conference a few years ago, the guy in Houston was there and I looked at his contract.  It says something like "a tank reseal WILL screw up your paint".  No need to pretend otherwise.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Probably a good idea to go for the whole enchilada.  At a MooneyMax conference a few years ago, the guy in Houston was there and I looked at his contract.  It says something like "a tank reseal WILL screw up your paint".  No need to pretend otherwise.

At least they are honest. The job could be done without screwing up the paint, but it would be the old fashioned stripping method, which takes a lot longer ($$) than just spraying stripper on it till it all sluffs off.

[N201MKTurbo]

When you start to scrape the sealant off to do a repair, if it comes off in sheets because it didn't adhere to the metal, or it is soft or crumbly, you should probably do a reseal. If it is still the right consistency and well adhered, I would just fix the leak. Without actually poking at the sealant, you are just guessing. 

[ArtVandelay]

At least they are honest. The job could be done without screwing up the paint, but it would be the old fashioned stripping method, which takes a lot longer ($$) than just spraying stripper on it till it all sluffs off.

I would expect that any paint damage would be limited to the bottom unless they’re careless with the chemical stripper. And with judicious use of tape could limit it to very small sections around the lower inspection plates which could be touched up.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would expect that any paint damage would be limited to the bottom unless they’re careless with the chemical stripper. And with judicious use of tape could limit it to very small sections around the lower inspection plates which could be touched up.

When Willmar did mine I was missing about two square feet of paint from each wing. I was pretty upset about that. it looked like they didn't even try to limit it. This was before Paul Beck owned the place, even though he worked there at the time. He told me the story about the guy that did my plane, who was going through a divorce and was mad at the world.

[GeeBee]

Not a spot on my paint after Wet Wingologists East.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

40 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would expect that any paint damage would be limited to the bottom unless they’re careless with the chemical stripper. And with judicious use of tape could limit it to very small sections around the lower inspection plates which could be touched up.

That’s what I was thinking when I took mine in. 

[N201MKTurbo]

18 hours ago, hammdo said:

I guess it depends on how big the leak is and what condition the current sealer is. The SMM (Service Maintenance Manual) shows the various types of leaks. If it’s a big leak, reseal may be required. 
 

For me, the leaks are not huge so patch makes sense. 
 

For me, I can do a lot of patches vs full reseal cost. Since you’re painting, it may make sense. May be worth to get a patch to see if the sealant is good or if it is recommended to reseal. Mine was resealed in the 80’s and so far, the owners who did patches, the sealant is doing well…

-Don

I wouldn't say the size of the leak is the determining factor. A small flaw in the sealant can make a huge leak. It is no harder to repair than a tiny leak. I would say the determining factor is the number of leaks. If there is a bunch of them, then you have a problem.

[Shadrach]

18 hours ago, Henry Hochberg said:

How can you tell if a patch will be sufficient versus a reseal?

We're going to have the plane painted and we want to do the tanks before the paint. If we patch and it starts to leak it will mess up the paint (so I'm told).

Your sealant is 26 years old if it is original.  It may or may not be fine.  Our tanks had major repairs done in 1998 before I was involved in the plane but some original sealant remained intact. Over the last 17 years, I have doe 3 additional repairs. there is almost no original sealant left in the tanks.  I have not had to repair any of my previous work. I am not saying yo don't need a complete reseal, but my experience is that someone with experience could buy you another 5 years or more. It is tedious work, but there is a learning curve.  The last time I repaired a tank it took about 7 hours of work but it was spread over three days to allow for the sealant to cure at each step (filet, top coat over rivets and the sloshing compound) plus two trips to the wash rack to completely flush out the tanks out with water (after sealant removal and after repair).  I am probably more OCD than most when it comes to masking and cleaning. I think there is a cottage industry built on completely stripping tank when a repair is perfectly adequate.  I don't know what a complete reseal costs these days, but until I am able to value my free time above $200hr, I'll probably stick to repairing under A&P supervision. 

[M20F]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 I am probably more OCD than most 

Let me fix that for you, you are more OCD than most!