Cross Wind Landings

[Alan Maurer]

Hello Mooney People, A technical question about the linkage between nose wheel and rudder. Using rudder to stay on the center line in a cross wind landing,

does this not turn the nosegear either right or left when lowering the nose at touchdown?  Sometimes, I swerve. ....not sure if it is just me or if the nose gear

sets up to cause swerve on the runway?? 

Thanks

Alan

Ovation N913ND

[ilovecornfields]

Might want to have an MSC check your Nosewheel. Sometimes the linkages get loose (I’m probably using the wrong word) and it can cause it to swerve like that. That’s happened to me before.

[Jeff_S]

1 hour ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hello Mooney People, A technical question about the linkage between nose wheel and rudder. Using rudder to stay on the center line in a cross wind landing,

does this not turn the nosegear either right or left when lowering the nose at touchdown?  Sometimes, I swerve. ....not sure if it is just me or if the nose gear

sets up to cause swerve on the runway?? 

Thanks

Alan

Ovation N913ND

So are you saying that you're not holding off the nose wheel until the mains have both landed and started tracking?  Quel horreur!

I know from experience it's hard to hold the Ovation nose wheel off as much as you should...that dang IO-550 is heavy.  And I've swerved a time or two in heavy crosswinds but I never felt it was because of the nose wheel being catawampus.  I'm not diagnosing your situation at all, but in my case it's usually because I don't hold aileron cross controls long enough, or one of my favorites...with my big feet, I sometimes get a touch up onto the brake on one side by mistake.  I've got to consciously work to keep my toes lower on the rudder pedals and "dance" like I would in a taildragger.

[midlifeflyer]

There is a timing issue in transitioning from crosswind landing to crosswind taxi in any airplane that doesn't have a free-castering nosegear. Practice (and instruction) help, but it comes down to neutralizing (and ground steering) with the pedals while retaining and increasing the aileron deflection. I don't know if this is what's happening, but the No 1 crosswind landing error I see is neutralizing aileron at touchdown.

[Yetti]

I big gusty crosswinds I sometimes do a one wheel (upwind wheel) landing which allows you to be straight on the runway and avoid the funky transition from main to nosewheel touch down.

[Hank]

25 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I big gusty crosswinds I sometimes do a one wheel (upwind wheel) landing which allows you to be straight on the runway and avoid the funky transition from main to nosewheel touch down.

Three chirps are nice to hear!

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Three chirps are nice to hear!

On a gusty cross wind day ploping it on is nice to feel.   Could have been better, but plane is reusable

[Alan Maurer]

Could be that the technique is to treat the rudder pedals like a taildragger and keep those feet dancing. And of course hold the upwind wing down.And yes, quite true 

that the IO 550 is heavy and hard to really hold off well. nevertheless, when blowing hard and gusty it's not always easy.

[BDPetersen]

While a student at Purdue University in the mid ‘60s, I was a part time flight instructor for the aviation department. It was at that time that the school was retiring the Cessna fleet and bringing on the new-fangled Piper Cherokees. The Cherokee, as we all know, has the rigid rudder pedal to nose wheel link as opposed to the springy Cessna system. This fact was the reason for a special instructors meeting to brief us on the reported problem of Cherokees around the country being involved in “ground loop” type incidents caused by X-wind landings and the nose wheel being cocked at touchdown. Well, 60 years later I am not aware that this problem materialized. 
Neutralizing the rudder at nose wheel touchdown is the answer.

[midlifeflyer]

20 hours ago, Yetti said:

I big gusty crosswinds I sometimes do a one wheel (upwind wheel) landing which allows you to be straight on the runway and avoid the funky transition from main to nosewheel touch down.

Too many think the goal of a crosswind landing is to land on the upwind wheel. Results in some interesting things. Actually, the result of a good crosswind landing is landing in the upwind wheel. The goal is to land properly aligned with no drift.

[Yetti]

16 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Too many think the goal of a crosswind landing is to land on the upwind wheel. Results in some interesting things. Actually, the result of a good crosswind landing is landing in the upwind wheel. The goal is to land properly aligned with no drift.

One of my thoughts about a one wheel landing is that it puts the upwind wing more level to the ground.  This keeps the gusts from picking the wing  up as easy and makes for a smoother landing.

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

One of my thoughts about a one wheel landing is that it puts the upwind wing more level to the ground.  This keeps the gusts from picking the wing  up as easy and makes for a smoother landing.

You're absolutely right. The point I was trying to make (poorly)  is that if you (a) maintain lateral alignment, (b) prevent drift, (and (c) move the controls to the crosswind taxi position on touchdown), the one-wheel landing will take care of itself in exactly the amount needed. I recall someone once (only once!) complimenting me on what they said was a textbook  one wheel landing. I wasn't even consciously aware I had landed on one wheel.

I've seen people who think of it as the goal rather than the result do one-wheel landings based on a windsock when closer to the ground there was no crosswind at all.   

Not that there's anything wrong with it  

[Echo]

I have always been a crab and kick guy in Mooney’s. *No long body time. Has worked extremely well for me thus far.

[midlifeflyer]

18 hours ago, Echo said:

I have always been a crab and kick guy in Mooney’s. *No long body time. Has worked extremely well for me thus far.

No different than any other crosswind landing except for the timing. Slip all the way and crab and kick are the ends of a spectrum not completely alternate techniques. For example, my preference is to crab into the flare and then straighten out. Some do it later, some earlier.

I tell my clients that there have been very few crosswind landing accidents while the airplane was still in the air.

[bcg]

So are you saying that you're not holding off the nose wheel until the mains have both landed and started tracking?  Quel horreur!

I know from experience it's hard to hold the Ovation nose wheel off as much as you should...that dang IO-550 is heavy.  And I've swerved a time or two in heavy crosswinds but I never felt it was because of the nose wheel being catawampus.  I'm not diagnosing your situation at all, but in my case it's usually because I don't hold aileron cross controls long enough, or one of my favorites...with my big feet, I sometimes get a touch up onto the brake on one side by mistake.  I've got to consciously work to keep my toes lower on the rudder pedals and "dance" like I would in a taildragger.

I applied a little left brake inadvertently on landing once and almost went off the runway to the left. In recovery I lost control to the right and ended up in a runway I wasn't cleared to be in via a taxiway I wasn't cleared to enter. Fortunately the runway was closed but, it was still technically a runway incursion so I have a slip of paper from NASA thanking me for participating in the voluntary reporting system. I have since moved my seat back one notch and keep my feet down further where only my toes touch the rudders with no chance of inadvertent braking.

Funnily, we rebuilt the calipers and put new pads on this week and while the plane was on jacks, I noticed a flat spot on the left main. I think I know where that came from....


I have had a little swerve on a landing with significant crosswind correction if I don't straighten the rudder and nose wheel as soon as the mains are down. That was exciting but, not as exciting as adding a little brake on just one main.

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[ArtVandelay]

I also adjust my seat so I have to point my toes forward to activate the brakes, makes it impossible to accidentally hit the brakes.

[Pinecone]

It is not just the seat, but it can be the brake pedal links.

My 252/Encore had fixed links that put the brakes pedal well aft of the rudder pedal.  So on landing, I had to raise my knees and get my toes under the brake pedals to avoid hitting them by accident.

I sourced the adjustable links and when adjusted properly, it is no longer an issue.  Just don't ask how much the links cost from Mooney.