Turbo V band clamp AD

[A64Pilot]

https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/FR-ADFRAWD-2023-12417-0000000000.0001?modalOpened=true

At least I think that’s the subject of the AD

[Pinecone]

It is.

If I am reading things correctly, if you are less than 500 hours in the clamp, you can go to 500 hours.  If you hit 500 hours within the next 2 years, you can continue on that clamp with inspections ever 6 months or 100 hours, whichever comes first.

My clamp should be less than 500 hours, as I purchased it, it had 250 hours on a FRM.

But it really looks like someone needs to start making clamps.  And hopefully a replacement clamp without the spot welds

 

[N201MKTurbo]

My airplane has slipped through the cracks on all the previous ADs. I imagine because there are so few of us, but this one caught it.

2004-23-17 doesn't apply to my plane. My turbo is the same as a 231 turbo. Anybody know the part number for the riveted clamp for a 231?

[N201MKTurbo]

12 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

From my read, it only applies to multi segment V band clamps with spot welds.  Riveted versions are exempt.

Yes, I have a multisegment spot welded clamp. Two of them. One going into the turbo and one coming out of the turbo. It seems they only care about the one coming out of the turbo. The thing is, the fixed waste gate bypass pipe kind of supports the tailpipe pretty well. Even if the clamp broke, I don't think the tail pipe would fall off.

[Pinecone]

The part number for my TSIO-360-SB is 653337

Lists for $648 at Aircraft Spruce.  No stock.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

The part number for my TSIO-360-SB is 653337

Lists for $648 at Aircraft Spruce.  No stock.

All the pictures show that clamp as a spot welded clamp.

[ragedracer1977]

25 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

All the pictures show that clamp as a spot welded clamp.

I’m gonna have to look at mine. Logs say the AD was terminated by installing a different clamp. But I’m pretty sure it has spot welds.   Which is not prohibited by the Cessna AD. And the new AD says if you complied with the Cessna AD, you don’t have to comply with this one.

 

 So, I’m not real clear on whats what. Is it the spot welds or the multi segment?

Edited June 14, 2023 by ragedracer1977

[DonMuncy]

I haven't looked extensively, but at first glance, they only list M20M's on the AD. Did I misread it?

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

The part number for my TSIO-360-SB is 653337

Lists for $648 at Aircraft Spruce.  No stock.

Airpowerinc.com is less expensive ($507.27) but also backordered.

https://www.airpowerinc.com/search?q=653337

[EricJ]

10 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I haven't looked extensively, but at first glance, they only list M20M's on the AD. Did I misread it?

Pretty much any aircraft in any category with a spot-welded v-band clamp.    There are a couple small categories for exceptions.

"This AD applies to all turbocharged, reciprocating engine-powered airplanes and helicopters and turbocharged, reciprocating engines, certificated in any category, with a spot-welded, multi-segment v-band coupling installed at the tailpipe to turbocharger exhaust housing flange, except for airplanes that are in compliance with an AD listed in paragraphs (d)(1) through (10) of this AD, or have the supplemental type certificate (STC) listed in paragraph (d)(11) of this AD installed."

[N201MKTurbo]

We all need to read them very carefully. PITA…

[ragedracer1977]

46 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Generally the clamp on Cessna turbocharger and tailpipes are one piece of a different design and not subject to this AD

Yeah, I double checked.  They’re solid clamps.  Guess they figured out they were a problem back in the 70’s.

 

So, it would seem the spot welding only matters if it’s multi segmented.  
 

if it’s riveted, multi segment is fine.

 If it’s solid, spot welded is fine.

Edited June 14, 2023 by ragedracer1977

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

All the pictures show that clamp as a spot welded clamp.

As far as I know, that is what is available.  If someone knows of a part number for a rivited clamp, and where to get one, PLEASE let me know.   Or if you are ordering one, order me one while they are in stock and I will pay for it. 

But I would also not go by the picture, as it has probably been on their page for 20 years.

 

[Greg Ellis]

11 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I haven't looked extensively, but at first glance, they only list M20M's on the AD. Did I misread it?

That was actually a previous AD, AD 2004–23–17, Amendment 39–13872 (69 FR 67809, November 22, 2004) and not the current AD.  They were just giving a little background and history on how apparently they have been trying to fix this issue since the 70's.

In the actual AD at the bottom, they list Models M20J-V.

[DonMuncy]

Thanks Greg

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

So, it would seem the spot welding only matters if it’s multi segmented.  
 

if it’s riveted, multi segment is fine.

 If it’s solid, spot welded is fine.

I need to print it, and then read it again (I find reading online more difficult), but what I got was all about spot weld vs rivet.
Spot weld bad.
Rivet good.

[A64Pilot]

10 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I need to print it, and then read it again (I find reading online more difficult), but what I got was all about spot weld vs rivet.
Spot weld bad.
Rivet good.

Sent it to a neighbor with an Enstrom helicopter.

Went to breakfast with him today.

His question “So I  can drill out the spot welds and put rivets in, right?”

[ragedracer1977]

10 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I need to print it, and then read it again (I find reading online more difficult), but what I got was all about spot weld vs rivet.
Spot weld bad.
Rivet good.

Only if multi segmented.
 

if it’s solid, it could be either.

Edited June 15, 2023 by ragedracer1977

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

Sent it to a neighbor with an Enstrom helicopter.

Went to breakfast with him today.

His question “So I  can drill out the spot welds and put rivets in, right?”

Hmmmm.  Maybe.

[Pinecone]

That would be interesting if it could be done.

Would that have to approved as a AMOC?

Or how about welding it all the way around the tab?

[A64Pilot]

11 hours ago, Pinecone said:

That would be interesting if it could be done.

Would that have to approved as a AMOC?

Or how about welding it all the way around the tab?

Now this I could see as an AMOC, but I wouldn’t hold my breath, what happens if I understand the failure mode is that the band cracks at the spot welds from them making the metal brittle, the crack spreads of course and the clamp comes apart, caused usually I believe by someone over opening the clamp more than the min required. Riveting I’m thinking doesn’t make the band brittle so it doesn’t crack.

But I have never seen a “solid” clamp, how could you open that up to put it on?

I’m sitting here thinking about the ring that holds the top on a 55 gl drum, it’s solid, so maybe?

[A64Pilot]

To be clear I’m not abdicating putting in rivets in spotwelds, I believe the band is overhardned by the welds so it’s too late.

‘I think he meant it as a joke, but you never know

[Pinecone]

Depending on the size of the rivet, you may drill out the over hardened area.  But the failure method would change with the drilling and riviting.

But there is not likely for someone to get this approved as an AMOC, as that would take time and money, and where is the return.  Unless Textron decides it is a good thing.

[FoxMike]

I took a look at my V clamp yesterday.  My Bravo is a 1999 and I found the V clamp to be riveted.  I wondered if other Bravo owners had riveted V clamps.  I called a service center and they told me the part number called out in the parts manual was no good but the alternate number (Textron number) was still good.  Of course they had no stock.  I am pretty sure this is the originally installed V clamp and after 2300 hrs still looks serviceable.  I have not had much good luck this year but things maybe looking up.

[larryb]

I checked the clamp on my Encore and it appears to be a single piece and not segmented. It is spot welded though.