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Accident near HPN

BravoWhiskey
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StevenL757 Grand Master

StevenL757

Posted
Posted

I heard this airplane fly directly over my house at about 3800’ last night.  Given WX conditions, including an icing Airmet from the surface to 12,000, I flipped on “traffic” in ForeFlight, tracked him, and saw he’d just departed JFK.  Followed him for awhile, watched him climb, level off, then lethargically climb, then descend, and then start turning.  Called my wife over to look over my shoulder, and mentioned something like “I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but this looks suspiciously like an icing encounter or an engine problem, and that this doesn’t look like it’s going to end well”.  Sadly, I was right.  Prayers for those two onboard and their respective families.

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BravoWhiskey Community Regular

BravoWhiskey

Posted
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With the reservoir there that airport gets fogged in often too.  I used to live in that area.  Loved the convenience of commercial flights vs NYC but hated the weather delays.  
given the rate of climb, sporadic altitude and speed changes my first thought would be frame and carb icing.   Tough airport to divert to at night with LIFR and emergency situation.

Mooney in Oz Mentor

Mooney in Oz

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, BravoWhiskey said:

given the rate of climb, sporadic altitude and speed changes my first thought would be frame and carb icing.

The A36 is fitted with a Continental fuel injected engine, so no carb ice.

According to the link, the pilot reported loss of oil pressure to ATC. This plus possible airframe ice and a reported 200 foot base would not have given the pilot much time to see the runway. 

It must have been a frightening ordeal.

May they both RIP.

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

Wow that is heart breaking listening to the tape.

Did he get slow and stall or maybe loose orientation in the night ifr or was there just not enough energy to get there.  In any case, how sad.  It was painful to listen to.

exM20K Veteran

exM20K

Posted
Posted

Tough spot to be in.  I think I heard him say the engine was over-revving at one point, which would be consistent with loss of OP.  From where he was when the incident started, he was high and set up on a long final for 34, but the ceilings were below ILS 34 minimums.  There’s just not a lot of options where and when this happened.  One of the most jarring things here is how close they were to pulling it off.  1 mile final and a couple hundred MORE feet of altitude, and they would have had an awesome “so there I was” story. RIP

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ArtVandelay Grand Master

ArtVandelay

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, HIghpockets said:

https://archive.liveatc.net/klga/NY-LGA ... -2200Z.mp3

This is the recording from LiveATC. Exchange with ATC begins at or about 16:52.  I recommend listening.

Have to wonder if he declared emergency earlier at first sign of engine trouble would outcome been different?

 I think he first said he lost a cylinder, then he was losing oil pressure…then declared an emergency which I think the controller missed (pilot was relatively calm). 

RIP 

 

 

 

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ilovecornfields Grand Master

ilovecornfields

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, ArtVandelay said:

Have to wonder if he declared emergency earlier at first sign of engine trouble would outcome been different?

 I think he first said he lost a cylinder, then he was losing oil pressure…then declared an emergency which I think the controller missed (pilot was relatively calm). 

RIP 

 

 

 

Yeah. Difficult 13 minutes of audio to listen to, especially when you know the outcome. I declared an emergency a few years ago for some engine problems and the first thing the controller did was clear me for a lower altitude. I told him I was going to climb instead while I still could. Seems like he didn’t realize how bad the situation was until it was too late. 


There was a news report that THE PASSENGER was sending group texts saying goodbye while the whole thing was going on. I wonder if at some point THEY just resigned THEMSELVES to a bad outcome. My family knows I love them - I think I would have focused on flying the plane.

Edited by ilovecornfields
Passenger was the one who sent texts
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Mooney in Oz Mentor

Mooney in Oz

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I think he first said he lost a cylinder, then he was losing oil pressure…then declared an emergency which I think the controller missed (pilot was relatively calm).

I also listened to the recording and the pilot did say he lost a cylinder. I imagine that alone would have caused a fair degree of airframe vibration and added further stress to the pilot.  

The controller missed the pilot’s emergency declaration because of frequency congestion.  He did such a brilliant job .

Sixstring2k Collaborator

Sixstring2k

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/21/2023 at 12:07 PM, ilovecornfields said:

Yeah. Difficult 13 minutes of audio to listen to, especially when you know the outcome. I declared an emergency a few years ago for some engine problems and the first thing the controller did was clear me for a lower altitude. I told him I was going to climb instead while I still could. Seems like he didn’t realize how bad the situation was until it was too late. 


There was a news report that he was sending group texts saying goodbye while the whole thing was going on. I wonder if at some point he just resigned himself to a bad outcome. My family knows I love them - I think I would have focused on flying the plane.

I think it was the passenger who was texting to family but not 100% sure. Sad ending. Rip

Edited by Sixstring2k
exM20K Veteran

exM20K

Posted
Posted

Since @mike_elliott is too busy to (or afraid to) fly with me tomorrow, I’m going to spend a couple hours solo going through the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book. I really wanted to try this under the hood with SVT, but unless anyone wants to fly with me within an hour of AAF, I’ll do it solo. I try to do this every six months or so, and had a great time with Parvez Darva running through these repeatedly at a MAPASF PPP. I do believe that SVT can be a game changer if you can glide maneuver into the cone of good outcomes.

-dan

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PeteMc Veteran

PeteMc

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, exM20K said:

but unless anyone wants to fly with me within an hour of AAF

I'm out west for a few more day, but back Wednesday.  If sometime after that you want to try it again, let me know.

I'd be curious to see what the "...the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book...." are.

(You'd have to pick me up at FRG, my K is in for Annual right now.)

 

carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted
On 1/23/2023 at 12:52 AM, PeteMc said:

I'm out west for a few more day, but back Wednesday.  If sometime after that you want to try it again, let me know.

I'd be curious to see what the "...the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book...." are.

(You'd have to pick me up at FRG, my K is in for Annual right now.)

 

Low cost, great read… electronic copy…

Well written, lots of data from that Brand B Nate has become more familiar with… over time…

 

https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Out-Survival-Tactics-Emergencies-ebook/dp/B01HTWFPQU/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=e467561b-1581-4897-bf4e-55467a6f8436

Try to use the Amazon smile site if familiar, while it lasts…

 

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1
mike_elliott Grand Master

mike_elliott

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, exM20K said:

Since @mike_elliott is too busy to (or afraid to) fly with me tomorrow, I’m going to spend a couple hours solo going through the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book. I really wanted to try this under the hood with SVT, but unless anyone wants to fly with me within an hour of AAF, I’ll do it solo. I try to do this every six months or so, and had a great time with Parvez Darva running through these repeatedly at a MAPASF PPP. I do believe that SVT can be a game changer if you can glide maneuver into the cone of good outcomes.

-dan

Not afraid, just booked today, not with flying but personal stuff. Next time Dan!

PeteMc Veteran

PeteMc

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, carusoam said:

lowest cost fuel at central Jersey airport

47N probably is (as usual) the least expensive, but Reliant at DXR is also pretty good.  There's a discount if you're an AOPA member, but I can't find it anywhere so I don't want to quote the wrong amount.  Still pretty good for over on that side of the NY CBA.

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bonal Grand Master

bonal

Posted
Posted

Sometimes thread drift can be entertaining, but for Pete’s sake this is about the loss of two fellow aviators and were talking about fuel prices.  
may they Rest In Peace and comfort to their families 

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, bonal said:

Sometimes thread drift can be entertaining, but for Pete’s sake this is about the loss of two fellow aviators and were talking about fuel prices.  
may they Rest In Peace and comfort to their families 

Thanks John.

I probably started that accidentally… I adjusted my post appropriately…

Prayers,

 -a-

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