BravoWhiskey Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Terrible news to wake up to… they were so close to getting back to HPN https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/306024 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 I heard this airplane fly directly over my house at about 3800’ last night. Given WX conditions, including an icing Airmet from the surface to 12,000, I flipped on “traffic” in ForeFlight, tracked him, and saw he’d just departed JFK. Followed him for awhile, watched him climb, level off, then lethargically climb, then descend, and then start turning. Called my wife over to look over my shoulder, and mentioned something like “I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but this looks suspiciously like an icing encounter or an engine problem, and that this doesn’t look like it’s going to end well”. Sadly, I was right. Prayers for those two onboard and their respective families. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoWhiskey Posted January 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 With the reservoir there that airport gets fogged in often too. I used to live in that area. Loved the convenience of commercial flights vs NYC but hated the weather delays. given the rate of climb, sporadic altitude and speed changes my first thought would be frame and carb icing. Tough airport to divert to at night with LIFR and emergency situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 11 hours ago, BravoWhiskey said: given the rate of climb, sporadic altitude and speed changes my first thought would be frame and carb icing. The A36 is fitted with a Continental fuel injected engine, so no carb ice. According to the link, the pilot reported loss of oil pressure to ATC. This plus possible airframe ice and a reported 200 foot base would not have given the pilot much time to see the runway. It must have been a frightening ordeal. May they both RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIghpockets Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 https://archive.liveatc.net/klga/NY-LGA ... -2200Z.mp3 This is the recording from LiveATC. Exchange with ATC begins at or about 16:52. I recommend listening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Wow that is heart breaking listening to the tape. Did he get slow and stall or maybe loose orientation in the night ifr or was there just not enough energy to get there. In any case, how sad. It was painful to listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Tough spot to be in. I think I heard him say the engine was over-revving at one point, which would be consistent with loss of OP. From where he was when the incident started, he was high and set up on a long final for 34, but the ceilings were below ILS 34 minimums. There’s just not a lot of options where and when this happened. One of the most jarring things here is how close they were to pulling it off. 1 mile final and a couple hundred MORE feet of altitude, and they would have had an awesome “so there I was” story. RIP 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 The controller rocked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 3 hours ago, HIghpockets said: https://archive.liveatc.net/klga/NY-LGA ... -2200Z.mp3 This is the recording from LiveATC. Exchange with ATC begins at or about 16:52. I recommend listening. Have to wonder if he declared emergency earlier at first sign of engine trouble would outcome been different? I think he first said he lost a cylinder, then he was losing oil pressure…then declared an emergency which I think the controller missed (pilot was relatively calm). RIP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) On 1/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, ArtVandelay said: Have to wonder if he declared emergency earlier at first sign of engine trouble would outcome been different? I think he first said he lost a cylinder, then he was losing oil pressure…then declared an emergency which I think the controller missed (pilot was relatively calm). RIP Yeah. Difficult 13 minutes of audio to listen to, especially when you know the outcome. I declared an emergency a few years ago for some engine problems and the first thing the controller did was clear me for a lower altitude. I told him I was going to climb instead while I still could. Seems like he didn’t realize how bad the situation was until it was too late. There was a news report that THE PASSENGER was sending group texts saying goodbye while the whole thing was going on. I wonder if at some point THEY just resigned THEMSELVES to a bad outcome. My family knows I love them - I think I would have focused on flying the plane. Edited January 22, 2023 by ilovecornfields Passenger was the one who sent texts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 I saw on another forum that the pax was sending the texts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, Pinecone said: I saw on another forum that the pax was sending the texts. I think you’re correct. I guess maybe that brought some comfort to him. In my near death experiences I’ve had other priorities but I guess everyone is different. My apologies for getting the facts wrong. https://fox8.com/news/2-killed-in-new-york-plane-crash-were-from-cleveland/amp/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 9 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: I think he first said he lost a cylinder, then he was losing oil pressure…then declared an emergency which I think the controller missed (pilot was relatively calm). I also listened to the recording and the pilot did say he lost a cylinder. I imagine that alone would have caused a fair degree of airframe vibration and added further stress to the pilot. The controller missed the pilot’s emergency declaration because of frequency congestion. He did such a brilliant job . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstring2k Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) On 1/21/2023 at 12:07 PM, ilovecornfields said: Yeah. Difficult 13 minutes of audio to listen to, especially when you know the outcome. I declared an emergency a few years ago for some engine problems and the first thing the controller did was clear me for a lower altitude. I told him I was going to climb instead while I still could. Seems like he didn’t realize how bad the situation was until it was too late. There was a news report that he was sending group texts saying goodbye while the whole thing was going on. I wonder if at some point he just resigned himself to a bad outcome. My family knows I love them - I think I would have focused on flying the plane. I think it was the passenger who was texting to family but not 100% sure. Sad ending. Rip Edited January 22, 2023 by Sixstring2k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPetersen Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 Sadly I understand that text got missent to one of his church groups. They were active in the Orthodox community, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 Since @mike_elliott is too busy to (or afraid to) fly with me tomorrow, I’m going to spend a couple hours solo going through the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book. I really wanted to try this under the hood with SVT, but unless anyone wants to fly with me within an hour of AAF, I’ll do it solo. I try to do this every six months or so, and had a great time with Parvez Darva running through these repeatedly at a MAPASF PPP. I do believe that SVT can be a game changer if you can glide maneuver into the cone of good outcomes. -dan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 5 hours ago, exM20K said: but unless anyone wants to fly with me within an hour of AAF I'm out west for a few more day, but back Wednesday. If sometime after that you want to try it again, let me know. I'd be curious to see what the "...the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book...." are. (You'd have to pick me up at FRG, my K is in for Annual right now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 12:52 AM, PeteMc said: I'm out west for a few more day, but back Wednesday. If sometime after that you want to try it again, let me know. I'd be curious to see what the "...the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book...." are. (You'd have to pick me up at FRG, my K is in for Annual right now.) Low cost, great read… electronic copy… Well written, lots of data from that Brand B Nate has become more familiar with… over time… https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Out-Survival-Tactics-Emergencies-ebook/dp/B01HTWFPQU/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=e467561b-1581-4897-bf4e-55467a6f8436 Try to use the Amazon smile site if familiar, while it lasts… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 Where is this cheap fuel? A place to eat there? An MS fuel and lunch meet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 Lol "Cheap Fuel" is a relative term ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 15 hours ago, exM20K said: Since @mike_elliott is too busy to (or afraid to) fly with me tomorrow, I’m going to spend a couple hours solo going through the SFO drills from @Buster1 Nate’s excellent book. I really wanted to try this under the hood with SVT, but unless anyone wants to fly with me within an hour of AAF, I’ll do it solo. I try to do this every six months or so, and had a great time with Parvez Darva running through these repeatedly at a MAPASF PPP. I do believe that SVT can be a game changer if you can glide maneuver into the cone of good outcomes. -dan Not afraid, just booked today, not with flying but personal stuff. Next time Dan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: https://www.airnav.com/airport/KFRG Ouch!! Republic Jet just raised their prices. I was supposed to go there last Sat to have lunch with a friend and visit one or both of the nearby aviation museums. When I planned the trip, they were well under $7 per gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 11 hours ago, carusoam said: lowest cost fuel at central Jersey airport 47N probably is (as usual) the least expensive, but Reliant at DXR is also pretty good. There's a discount if you're an AOPA member, but I can't find it anywhere so I don't want to quote the wrong amount. Still pretty good for over on that side of the NY CBA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 Sometimes thread drift can be entertaining, but for Pete’s sake this is about the loss of two fellow aviators and were talking about fuel prices. may they Rest In Peace and comfort to their families 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 24, 2023 Report Share Posted January 24, 2023 12 hours ago, bonal said: Sometimes thread drift can be entertaining, but for Pete’s sake this is about the loss of two fellow aviators and were talking about fuel prices. may they Rest In Peace and comfort to their families Thanks John. I probably started that accidentally… I adjusted my post appropriately… Prayers, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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