IFR Upgrade

[Sam Harris]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have an M20A in great shape. I picked it up last year for $35,000, which is a steal considering how well it flies.

my question is, I want to do an IFR upgrade on the panel which will likely cost 30K by the time I am done. Should I be spending this on a wooden wing? For you information, the wings spar and fabric are at 90%.

id love to hear your thoughts,

Thanks,

Sam

[PeteMc]

What are you looking at for the upgrade that gave you the $35K price?  And would it be a fair assumption on my part that you're not planning to fly the wooden wing into hard IMC? 

If so, is there a less expensive way to go to get you up/down through light layers and allow you to file IFR on MVFR days?  Maybe a Garmin GNC355 for the GPS or GNX375 if you need ADS-B Out & a GPS.  Then the GI275 for a good digital display that will easily interface.  Then move whatever vacuum instruments you need off to the side to keep the plane fully legal.

Sure, having a big new fancy panel would be great.  And if the cost is not an option, go for it!  But I would guess you'd be able to get the equipment you need for an "A" for less than $35K.

Side note...  Don't forget you need a heated Pitot Tube too.  I'm guessing that didn't come on the A.

 

[hammdo]

GNC 355 or GNX 375 and you could do 2 G5's with GAD 29B GMU11 -- that would get you around 18-20K installed.  That makes a great IFR platform (I have 2 G5s and GNC 355).  I also have KX 155 with LOC/GS so those are separate systems -- gives me a lot of options. 

I'd also be concerned with hard IFR and the wood wing too.  I'd keep it straight forward - K.I.S.S.  A wood wing Mooney takes a special owner/buyer so it all depends on how long you intend to keep it.

Good point on the Pitot Heat -- you'd need that also..

Hard to really tell since we can't see the current setup and what you already have.

-Don

[KSMooniac]

Do you have or want an autopilot? Your options are very limited... I would answer that question first before making any other plans.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[Sam Harris]

Thanks guys. Yes I already have pitot heat.

I appreciate your wisdom, do you think a Garmin 430 is an option or go for the gnx 375? The  screen is small on the the 375.

Sam

 

[hammdo]

If you don't have ADSB, the 375 is the way to go -- its plenty big for IFR -- the GNC 355 is the same size.  The GNC 355 has a COM where as the 375 has Transponder with ADSB in/out (give traffic etc on the screen).  Either will work fine for IFR -- that with an IPad and you'll have a pretty good platform -- then I'd consider an engine monitor as it makes leaning/etc a whole lot better (if you don't have one).  I don't have an autopilot yet (some concerns over the Garmin GFC500 and the TruTrak are still supply chain limited).  Auto pilot will make IFR flights easier but I'm still hand flying until these issues noted above are resolved.

Mooney's make a great cross country plane!  

-Don

 

[PeteMc]

430 if a "W" is a great option and probably available at a good price.  Downside is that it is older technology and has already lived a long life.  If you want a bigger screen, you might look for an original GTN750 (not Xi).  Newer tech with a new screen, but not the newest.  Cost would obviously be more than the 430W, but still a savings from the GTN750Xi.  But....  Do you really need that real estate and do you have the panel space?  Also, does the A have any panel depth issues with support bars or anything?  Be sure with the newer tech that it fits.

As for the G5s, they were originally created to be a Backup to the G3X.  The GI275 is a whole new design with a LOT more power.  Yes, more money, but I think you'd be much happier with one 275 as a multi function display.  Obviously two would give you a LOT more power, but we're back to cost.

 

[Ragsf15e]

13 hours ago, Sam Harris said:

Thanks guys. Yes I already have pitot heat.

I appreciate your wisdom, do you think a Garmin 430 is an option or go for the gnx 375? The  screen is small on the the 375.

Sam

 

I agree with others about the 430w (I have a 430w with G5s).  I would keep that if I already have it because it’s great. However, I would not install one if it wasn’t already there. The 355 (or 375) isn’t that much more, but you get a lot more utility, and it will last and be supported longer. You can use a Wi-Fi iPad for much more real estate and depending on which equipment you have, that iPad will be able to transfer flight plans to your GPS and it will have all the ADSB in and out on it. 

additionally, if you put in a 430W now, the mounting bracket and wiring is different than for a 355. If the 430 goes out and is no longer supported, you might be redoing your panel again to get another GPS in there.

[Skates97]

13 hours ago, hammdo said:

If you don't have ADSB, the 375 is the way to go -- its plenty big for IFR -- the GNC 355 is the same size.  The GNC 355 has a COM where as the 375 has Transponder with ADSB in/out (give traffic etc on the screen).  Either will work fine for IFR -- that with an IPad and you'll have a pretty good platform -- then I'd consider an engine monitor as it makes leaning/etc a whole lot better (if you don't have one).  I don't have an autopilot yet (some concerns over the Garmin GFC500 and the TruTrak are still supply chain limited).  Auto pilot will make IFR flights easier but I'm still hand flying until these issues noted above are resolved.

Mooney's make a great cross country plane!  

-Don

 

Agree. the screen on the GNC 355 is plenty big for IFR. The resolution is very good so the smaller screen really isn't an issue. 

I have dual G5's and a GNC 355 along with the GFC500 and it is a great setup.

The G5's and 355 I installed under supervision of my AP/IA which saved some coin. Depending on how handy you are and who your AP/IA is it can be done. I think it took me twice as long as someone who has done it before, but I was going very slow and triple checking everything. Having the system run on a CAN Bus simplifies the amount of wires/connections that must be made.

[Sam Harris]

Thanks for all your replies. Good advice.

Sam

[PeteMc]

@Sam Harris  Got an email from Garmin this morning.  They are having a seminar that may be of interest to you:

GLASS PANEL ON A BUDGET: TIPS FROM A GARMIN EXPERT

Learn about Garmin avionics designed to modernize and advance your cockpit while staying on a budget, including our GI 275 display, G5 flight instrument, and more. 

 

If this preregistration link doesn't work, I'm sure a search of the title should find it:  https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/2657362799661560080?source=News&utm_source=Americas&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=en-US Delivery%2C AMER-AVN-NEWS-MCJT55524-November 2022 Webinars

[carusoam]

Somebody was selling an Avidyne 540 around here…

a big screen, WAAS, navigator…Looked brand new in his panel…

 

As far as spending 30amu to turn your M20A into an IFR ship…

1) Determine if this plane is your forever-Mooney…

2) If yes, spend the dough…

3) If your IFR flying has a lot of IMC…. Spend the dough… safety for the important stuff inside, outweighs the value of the plane…

4) If the plan is to somehow get the money back when you sell the plane… years from now…. Work on the details of the plan…

5) Congrats on getting past the first year… now is the time to start the upgrades…

6) If you haven’t gotten past the full first year yet… delay just a little longer…

PP thoughts only, based on discussions around here…

Best regards,

-a-