What is TKS worth to you?

[StevenL757]

8 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I know that you can't get your money back, but 70k down to 10k seems like a lot of overnight depreciation.

$70,000 is a ballpark figure for the known-ice installation, which would yield roughly anywhere between $35 - $40k aftermarket.

Inadvertent installations which run around $45,000 would yield more than $10,000 aftermarket, but certainly less than the aftermarket value of a FiKI installation.

[Fly Boomer]

17 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

more than $10,000 aftermarket

That's what I think too.

[KLRDMD]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:06 AM, ilovecornfields said:

I think once you’ve had it (FIKI or TKS) you never want a plane without it.

That has been said for so many things. Once you've had FIKI (or TKS) you won't go back to an airplane without it. Once you've had a turbo you won't go back to normally aspirated. Once you've had a twin you won't go back to a single. Once you've had pressurization you won't go back to a non-pressurized airplane. Bah.

Next month I should have my 19th airplane. 

1. Piper Cherokee 140 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
2. Mooney M20C (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
3. Cirrus SR22 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
4. Cessna 152 [to teach in] (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
5. Mooney Bravo M20M (unpressurized turbocharged single FIKI)
6. Piper Seneca III (unpressurized turbocharged twin)
7. Mooney M20F [Ray-Jay] (unpressurized turbocharged single)
8. Beech B55 Colemill Baron (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
9. Cessna 182 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
10. Piper Twin Comanche (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
11. Lancair 320 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
12. Cessna P337 (pressurized turbocharged twin)
13. Cessna 182 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
14. Mooney 231 M20K (unpressurized turbocharged single)
15. Beech B55 Baron (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
16. Beech S35 Bonanza (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
17. Cessna P337 (pressurized turbocharged twin)
18. Cessna 310Q (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
19.                         (unpressurized normally aspirated single)

Edited August 5, 2022 by KLRDMD

[GeeBee]

A parachute is just dead weight off the payload until........

Same with TKS

 

[T. Peterson]

On 8/5/2022 at 5:51 PM, KLRDMD said:

That has been said for so many things. Once you've had FIKI (or TKS) you won't go back to an airplane without it. Once you've had a turbo you won't go back to normally aspirated. Once you've had a twin you won't go back to a single. Once you've had pressurization you won't go back to a non-pressurized airplane. Bah.

Next month I should have my 19th airplane. 

1. Piper Cherokee 140 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
2. Mooney M20C (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
3. Cirrus SR22 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
4. Cessna 152 [to teach in] (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
5. Mooney Bravo M20M (unpressurized turbocharged single FIKI)
6. Piper Seneca III (unpressurized turbocharged twin)
7. Mooney M20F [Ray-Jay] (unpressurized turbocharged single)
8. Beech B55 Colemill Baron (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
9. Cessna 182 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
10. Piper Twin Comanche (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
11. Lancair 320 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
12. Cessna P337 (pressurized turbocharged twin)
13. Cessna 182 (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
14. Mooney 231 M20K (unpressurized turbocharged single)
15. Beech B55 Baron (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
16. Beech S35 Bonanza (unpressurized normally aspirated single)
17. Cessna P337 (pressurized turbocharged twin)
18. Cessna 310Q (unpressurized normally aspirated twin)
19.                         (unpressurized normally aspirated single)

Wow! You have been blessed! I am 63 years old and just got my first airplane 5 mos ago.

 I am very pleased and grateful for my Mooney, but I also think a 310 is wonderful! You have enjoyed a lifetime of beautiful airplanes!

 

[Pinecone]

I beat you.  67 and buying my first plane.

OTOH, I have logged time in 66 different makes/models over the years.

[Browncbr1]

I'd pay and extra $10k for non-fiki tks..  probably not more though because it's more things to maintain and costs a little speed.  I visit NE ohio year around, but typically figure that December-March is no go season unless I plan to stay just a couple days or so.

Honestly, for my 67F, I think the best value would be a just a slinger on the prop (alcohol or tks).. For that, I'd pay proportionally more than a full tks system.

From my experience using alcohol props; it ends up slinging all over the plane anyway, just except for out at the wing tips.  The baron I fly has alcohol props and I've never had to actually use the wing boots. 

So, I'd pay for a small 2 alcohol prop slinger for sure.. problem is, I don't think an stc like this exists!

Edited August 10, 2022 by Browncbr1

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

Honestly, for my 67F, I think the best value would be a just a slinger on the prop (alcohol or tks).. For that, I'd pay proportionally more than a full tks system. From my experience using alcohol props; it ends up slinging all over the plane anyway, just except for out at the wing tips.  The baron I fly has alcohol props and I've never had to actually use the wing boots. 

I felt better in icing (light, never have been in moderate or worse) in my Colemill Baron just with alcohol props than I did in my known ice TKS Bravo. There's just something to be said for a second engine and 600 HP total versus one engine and 270 HP.

[Browncbr1]

53 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I felt better in icing (light, never have been in moderate or worse) in my Colemill Baron just with alcohol props than I did in my known ice TKS Bravo. There's just something to be said for a second engine and 600 HP total versus one engine and 270 HP.

true, and time to climb and descent through icing is less in the baron.   

[T. Peterson]

On 8/10/2022 at 7:36 AM, Pinecone said:

I beat you.  67 and buying my first plane.

OTOH, I have logged time in 66 different makes/models over the years.

You too are blessed!

[FlyingScot]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:19 AM, KLRDMD said:

I felt better in icing (light, never have been in moderate or worse) in my Colemill Baron just with alcohol props than I did in my known ice TKS Bravo. There's just something to be said for a second engine and 600 HP total versus one engine and 270 HP.

Yes, fuel consumption! 

[KLRDMD]

13 minutes ago, FlyingScot said:

Yes, fuel consumption! 

Insignificant. In my Bravo I burned 19.4 gallons per hour in cruise. That’s what it took to keep things cool enough. In my Baron, I cruised at 10 gallons per hour per side so 20 gallons per hour total. The Baron, is faster than the Bravo below 10,000 feet which is 95% of my flying. It also has a useful load of twice what the Bravo has. 

[FlyingScot]

3 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Insignificant. In my Bravo I burned 19.4 gallons per hour in cruise. That’s what it took to keep things cool enough. In my Baron, I cruised at 10 gallons per hour per side so 20 gallons per hour total. The Baron, is faster than the Bravo below 10,000 feet which is 95% of my flying. It also has a useful load of twice what the Bravo has. 

Point taken. I was actually attempting to be funny. I suppose I should keep my day job…

[carusoam]

Attempting humor while typing….   

Harder than it looks…

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

6 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Insignificant. In my Bravo I burned 19.4 gallons per hour in cruise. That’s what it took to keep things cool enough. In my Baron, I cruised at 10 gallons per hour per side so 20 gallons per hour total. The Baron, is faster than the Bravo below 10,000 feet which is 95% of my flying. It also has a useful load of twice what the Bravo has. 

Really your baron burning 20 gph is faster than your bravo burning 19.3 gph?

what speed are you getting in the baron at 20 gph out of curiosity?

[KLRDMD]

7 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Really your baron burning 20 gph is faster than your bravo burning 19.3 gph?

what speed are you getting in the baron at 20 gph out of curiosity?

Below 10,000 ft. I would get about 180 KTAS in the Baron and 175 KTAS in the Bravo at a typical cruise altitude for me of 7,500 ft.

[Steve Dawson]

I can get 175 KTAS at below 10,000 ft but at 16 GPH 

[KLRDMD]

8 minutes ago, Steve Dawson said:

I can get 175 KTAS at below 10,000 ft but at 16 GPH 

That’s great for you but I couldn’t. My Bravo wouldn’t run lean of peak at all and I had TKS which also costs some speed. That fuel flow would have my temperatures unacceptably high.

[Steve Dawson]

HI Ken,

I have TKS also but when I first bought the plane the rigging was substantially off and the engine baffle compartment had many leaks. I think my temps are still high so I'll probably continue to stop the leaks or get a new baffle kit from BeeGee. 

I think the people who did the rigging before I bought the plane were chasing a problem and just made it worse. I had one guy on my field check and fix the rudder problem which lead to re-rigging the ailerons and flaps properly. 

[KLRDMD]

3 hours ago, Steve Dawson said:

I have TKS also but when I first bought the plane the rigging was substantially off and the engine baffle compartment had many leaks. I think my temps are still high so I'll probably continue to stop the leaks or get a new baffle kit from BeeGee. 

I think the people who did the rigging before I bought the plane were chasing a problem and just made it worse. I had one guy on my field check and fix the rudder problem which lead to re-rigging the ailerons and flaps properly. 

I bought my Bravo from Don Maxwell (he represented the widow, the owner died of cancer) and Don had maintained it since new so I believe the rigging and everything else was done right.

[Will.iam]

6 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Below 10,000 ft. I would get about 180 KTAS in the Baron and 175 KTAS in the Bravo at a typical cruise altitude for me of 7,500 ft.

Man I got a Neighbohr that would love to trade his baron for yours. He can get 180kts at 30gph or 174 at 24 gph. He can fly faster than me but not at the same or lower fuel flow down low. But I have a 252 that doesn’t use as much fuel as the bravo and climb up into the flight levels and he isn’t faster either. So when traveling I’ll skyhook and get the speed if I’m putting around the local area I’m not in a hurry either. By the time he gets to 160 kts he is finally at 20 gph but I’m at 10 gph doing 160. Basically any speed I can do he can too but at more than double the fuel and maintenance cost but he gets redundancy and he can carry 6 and it’s roomier and easier to get in and out of but my eyes start watering and my wallet cringes when he takes off @40+ gph. But he is retired and has the money so why not use it. 

[KLRDMD]

10 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Man I got a Neighbohr that would love to trade his baron for yours. He can get 180kts at 30gph or 174 at 24 gph. 

Sounds like your neighbor has a slow Baron.

Here is 180 KTAS on 21 GPH and 175KTAS on 18 GPH. These are not my videos but another B55 owner.

 

 

[Will.iam]

Yea his is slower alright also most of the time we are 8k or lower so he would benefit more going to 12k. I’d have to be 10k higher and sucking on a hose to get those speeds. 

[amillet]

@KLRDMD  Have you ever added up the sales/use tax you’ve paid on those 18 aircraft

[Browncbr1]

7 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Below 10,000 ft. I would get about 180 KTAS in the Baron and 175 KTAS in the Bravo at a typical cruise altitude for me of 7,500 ft.

You must have a special colemill baron.   Fox star colemill 58 barons usually at 25 LOP 8-10k get 178-185ktas and ~13gph per side.    For me to burn only 10gph per side, I’d be going along about 160kts or so.    Is yours a 55 or 58?

i see the video, he’s at 12k with 2200rpm to get that low fuel burn.  

Edited August 12, 2022 by Browncbr1