Need Help

[cliffy]

#1  You did the right thing by getting on the ground!!!!!!!!  Always err on the side of safety. 

A good A&P that knows mags can "repair" it almost like new. "Overhaul" enters into an entirely different picture as to what has to be done to gat back in the air.

 A normal 500 hr repair will work out just fine

I used to do many dual mags on my bench and never had any troubles with them between 500 hr inspections. Points condenser, E gap grease bearings and a few  other tests and checks on the bench. Not really difficult or time consuming. Make sure he looks at the distributor gear and distributor and finger closely.

MAKE DAMN SURE WHEN IT GOES BACK ON THAT NEW LOCKWASHERS ARE USED AND IF EITHER ONE NEEDS TO BE LOSSENED AFTER TIGHTENING MAKE SURE IT GETS REPALCED WITH NEW  (CAPITALS ADDED FOR THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS ITEM)  These mags have actually fallen off the engine when lock washers have been reused.

[carusoam]

Great point(s) Cliffy!

 

Ownership lesson that some mechanics in the world haven’t learned…

Re-using star washers… or any lock washer is a bad idea… they become way less effective the next use…

 

If you suddenly see oil on the windshield after magneto work…

Its a good chance the mag is coming loose on the back of the engine…

By the time oil comes out… the mag is really loose.

PP stuff read around here, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[0TreeLemur]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:33 PM, JayMatt said:

It's not a turbo but it is fuel injected.

No engine monitor, was literally my next purchase and was trying to get in in the next month. Doesn't help me not having it now. 

If it is mags, is switching to a sure-fly a large undertaking for a mechanic?

Some mechanics struggle with proper setup of the electronic magneto.   A very knowledgeable mechanic urged me to wait.  Great idea in theory though.  Surprising there is only one company making them.

[BlueMooneyOverKentucky]

Sounds like you’re well on the path to recovery. But if you need another opinion, reach out to Shannon Whalen. He’s an independent A&P+IA and CFI near Cincinnati and a Mooney owner. His knowledge and eagerness to help people never ceases to impress me. 
 

I’ll DM his phone number to you. 

I don’t know that I can be much help to you from Lexington, but I’m willing if you need a local contact. I’m based out of 0I8, 20 miles from Falmouth. 
 

 

[JayMatt]

20 minutes ago, BlueMooneyOverKentucky said:

Sounds like you’re well on the path to recovery. But if you need another opinion, reach out to Shannon Whalen. He’s an independent A&P+IA and CFI near Cincinnati and a Mooney owner. His knowledge and eagerness to help people never ceases to impress me. 
 

I’ll DM his phone number to you. 

I don’t know that I can be much help to you from Lexington, but I’m willing if you need a local contact. I’m based out of 0I8, 20 miles from Falmouth. 
 

 

Thank you, I've had an outstanding amount of people helping me. I'll be sure to post a thread about it. I'm honestly at a loss for words at how generous people have been. I love the flying community. 

[201Steve]

On 4/29/2022 at 11:23 PM, cliffy said:

These mags have actually fallen off the engine when lock washers have been reused.

I recently had a beloved Mooneyspace engine shop tell me they were neither aware of nor agreed with SI1508c because they’d “never heard of any problems”. I was being too picky. This conversation was had after I noticed the torque was about half value to the SI. Full PIREP coming soon. 

[cliffy]

We have a posting right here on MS showing a member in a farm field in Colordo and showing him holding the nut and FLAT lockwasher in his hand.

The washer OBVIOUSLY had been used numerous times to become as flat as it was. 

Had a mag fall off a 172 in the shop I know of a couple of years ago.

Mags fall off if they are not put on correctly. 

Just because someone isn't listening to what goes on in the industry doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It only means that they have their head in the sand and they're not paying attention to what is happening around them. 

The cause is also obvious. The outcome is inevitable. Once is too many times for such a simple fix. 

[Mcstealth]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:23 PM, JayMatt said:

I called them and everyone under the sun, no one has one. It's getting pulled by a mechanic tomorrow and I found a guy willing to rebuild it. Plane will be down a week. Still trying to decide if I stay here or fly home Monday and come back when it's ready and the weather is right

 

Come back when it is ready, because it won't be ready when you are.

[JayMatt]

!UPDATE! 

So I've been debating starting a new Thread for this but I could just Update everyone on this one. 

First of all the plane is back in Texas. This is not without a few hiccups of course. First Shout out I'd like to give to  Professional Aircraft Accessories in Cincinnati. They turned around my Mags in 3 days and I believe someone there decided not to take time off to help get it done. Outstanding service considering there is a forever wait to get Mags overhauled. 

Second shout out is to Joe Spielman that drove out there and helped me get everything done. He's a traveling A&I out there and just an awesome guy. 

Shout out to the guys at K62 for helping me out. Dan Bell the airport manager got me space in a hangar to work on the plane. Jim Moore who let me use all his tools so I could help out the A&I. Several people offered help also, so I could get back to Texas.

The issue we ran into was the timing. We kept setting the timing to 25 btc and it would run like crap. This was what was stamped on the engine. We looked it up online after we checked all the wires and stuff and verified they were all good. Turns out you can set it to 20. We did that and it ran like a dream. Next Day I flew her back to Texas for an uneventful flight. 

The trip was a bit pricey overall but I have my Mags rebuilt now and I met a lot of cool people. It's pretty cool being part of such awesome community.   

[N201MKTurbo]

14 minutes ago, JayMatt said:

!UPDATE! 

So I've been debating starting a new Thread for this but I could just Update everyone on this one. 

First of all the plane is back in Texas. This is not without a few hiccups of course. First Shout out I'd like to give to  Professional Aircraft Accessories in Cincinnati. They turned around my Mags in 3 days and I believe someone there decided not to take time off to help get it done. Outstanding service considering there is a forever wait to get Mags overhauled. 

Second shout out is to Joe Spielman that drove out there and helped me get everything done. He's a traveling A&I out there and just an awesome guy. 

Shout out to the guys at K62 for helping me out. Dan Bell the airport manager got me space in a hangar to work on the plane. Jim Moore who let me use all his tools so I could help out the A&I. Several people offered help also, so I could get back to Texas.

The issue we ran into was the timing. We kept setting the timing to 25 btc and it would run like crap. This was what was stamped on the engine. We looked it up online after we checked all the wires and stuff and verified they were all good. Turns out you can set it to 20. We did that and it ran like a dream. Next Day I flew her back to Texas for an uneventful flight. 

The trip was a bit pricey overall but I have my Mags rebuilt now and I met a lot of cool people. It's pretty cool being part of such awesome community.   

Did they tell you what was wrong with the mag?

Edited May 11, 2022 by N201MKTurbo

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, JayMatt said:

!UPDATE! 

So I've been debating starting a new Thread for this but I could just Update everyone on this one. 

First of all the plane is back in Texas. This is not without a few hiccups of course. First Shout out I'd like to give to  Professional Aircraft Accessories in Cincinnati. They turned around my Mags in 3 days and I believe someone there decided not to take time off to help get it done. Outstanding service considering there is a forever wait to get Mags overhauled. 

Second shout out is to Joe Spielman that drove out there and helped me get everything done. He's a traveling A&I out there and just an awesome guy. 

Shout out to the guys at K62 for helping me out. Dan Bell the airport manager got me space in a hangar to work on the plane. Jim Moore who let me use all his tools so I could help out the A&I. Several people offered help also, so I could get back to Texas.

The issue we ran into was the timing. We kept setting the timing to 25 btc and it would run like crap. This was what was stamped on the engine. We looked it up online after we checked all the wires and stuff and verified they were all good. Turns out you can set it to 20. We did that and it ran like a dream. Next Day I flew her back to Texas for an uneventful flight. 

The trip was a bit pricey overall but I have my Mags rebuilt now and I met a lot of cool people. It's pretty cool being part of such awesome community.   

You cannot set the dual magneto engine to 20°. Whoever told you that is giving you bad information to cover up some other problem. Look at the type certificate data sheet, it’s only optional for non-D suffix engines.   Whoever told you that is giving you Incorrect information to cover up some other problem, Because if it doesn’t run right at 25° it’s not right. I have a small feeling that your problem may not have been fixed.  

[PT20J]

Byron is correct. I have attached the original Lycoming Service Instruction. The timing needs to be nearer TDC for starting and the impulse coupling has a "lag angle" to provide this. Mags used for 20 degree timing have a 15 degree lag angle. But the dual mags were only made with a 20 degree lag angle. This is why 20 degree timing is not approved for dual mag engines. If the engine runs better with a dual mag set to 20 degrees, it is possible that there is some issue with the mag. Maybe the internal timing (E-gap) is off. 

Also, if an eligible engine has the timing changed from 25 degrees to 20 degrees, it requires a logbook entry and re-stamping the data plate so future maintainers will know the correct timing.

SI 1325 Timing Change for IO-360 Series Engines.pdf

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[JayMatt]

Well now what? what the heck am i supposed to do? it runs great...

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Did they tell you what was wrong with the mag?

they said it had parts in it from the 80s and AD not complied with and stuff. Make me think people possible lied in the log books? Don't know at this point. Not sure how to get to the bottom of all this now. Got an  A&I from my home airport gunna look at it this week

[carusoam]

Great follow-up Matt!

Looks like you are getting closer…

But, something isn’t finished yet….

 

I can’t remember….  Do you have an engine monitor?

Mag timing has a way of showing up in the run-up part of the graphs… comparing two peaks….

Running like crap also leaves some key signatures as well…

 

Best regards,

-a-