Pilot deviation. Hold for number!!

[Mcstealth]

Not me. I was at a class D yesterday doing a poker run (my cards were terrible). I was ready to taxi and called. The tower was holding a Sonex hostage. Needing to cross an active, the tower told him to hold, and to advise when Sonex was ready to copy phone number. Tower made him wait, and wait, and wait for traffic that was a far way off. Tower forgot about me :(. I did make a second call call and controller apologized. Don't know what the Sonex did. Wish I did. He was held out in the sun for a long time. 

Don't want that to happen to me.

 

[EricJ]

I have Scottsdale tower on in a monitor in my office and listen to the traffic all day.   Phone numbers don't get handed out frequently, but more often than I thought, and sometimes they come in waves.    They also get handed out relayed from somewhere else.    I've heard Scottsdale tell somebody "Falcon tower wants you to call them, xxx-xxx-xxxx".

Our state pilot association newsletter gives a synopsis every month of accidents and incidents and recently started reporting deviations including issued Brasher warnings.   It's always an interesting read.    Fingers crossed I can keep from showing up there.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

I have Scottsdale tower on in a monitor in my office and listen to the traffic all day.   Phone numbers don't get handed out frequently, but more often than I thought, and sometimes they come in waves.    They also get handed out relayed from somewhere else.    I've heard Scottsdale tell somebody "Falcon tower wants you to call them, xxx-xxx-xxxx".

Our state pilot association newsletter gives a synopsis every month of accidents and incidents and recently started reporting deviations including issued Brasher warnings.   It's always an interesting read.    Fingers crossed I can keep from showing up there.

What are Brasher warnings?

[EricJ]

6 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

What are Brasher warnings?

When ATC says, "Possible pilot deviation" and gives you instructions to call somebody.

https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/faa-regs/dude-youre-busted/

[jaylw314]

50 minutes ago, EricJ said:

When ATC says, "Possible pilot deviation" and gives you instructions to call somebody.

https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/faa-regs/dude-youre-busted/

Ah, didn't realize that had a name, thanks

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Ah, didn't realize that had a name, thanks

Like the "Miranda warning," it's named after a case. ATC didn't  give the warning, which appears in th controller manual, to a pilot named Brasher. While he was still violated the FAA was prevented from imposing a suspension. I talk about it in my article, "Dude, You're Busted!" (No paywall)

Edited April 4, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[NotarPilot]

Whatever he did he may end up filling a NASA report in an attempt to protect himself, in which case if he does that report will be made public and searchable on the NASA website. This might give some insight to what happened.

https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov

[midlifeflyer]

On 4/4/2022 at 2:56 PM, EricJ said:

When ATC says, "Possible pilot deviation" and gives you instructions to call somebody.

https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/faa-regs/dude-youre-busted/

I didn't realize someone linked my article before I did! Even though I responded to a potential that quoted it! Duh! And thank you.

Edited April 6, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[GeeBee]

One time ATL tower asked me to call.  It was after a TCAS RA which I saw developing on the screen, that I could do nothing about because we could not get a word in as the controller was talking non-stop. He was running me into another airplane at the same altitude in IMC conditions because he was over saturated. I had clicked off the autopilot and reacted the instant the RA barked. I called and the first thing I said was, "Is your guy alright?"

The thing to remember is all loss of separation has to be reported.  Generally if your boo-boo caused a loss of separation, the controller is not going down for it, and justifiably so. If it is his boo-boo it will be handled within the facility but it is not fun for him as he he likely be disqualified at the position.

 

[ilovecornfields]

Controllers don’t want to report you either because the tapes get reviewed for a certain amount of time (I forgot how long) before and after the incident. If the controller did anything wrong, even if completely unrelated to the incident, they can get “remediated” on this. I recently heard the local controller bend over backwards not to bust a pilot for crossing the hold short line. He gave him a takeoff clearance after he saw him taxi onto the runway. The pilot started talking about how he crossed the line and the controller just repeated “YOU ARE CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF” in a way that clearly communicated “just shut up and takeoff before you make this worse.”

I’m actually surprised they don’t have video cameras all over the airport synced to the ATC tapes. 

[201er]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I’m actually surprised they don’t have video cameras all over the airport synced to the ATC tapes. 

Perhaps a gallery with lawn chairs for a couple FAA inspectors to grade everyone's landings and operations while you're at it?

[Marauder]

Perhaps a gallery with lawn chairs for a couple FAA inspectors to grade everyone's landings and operations while you're at it?

Setting up a camera works better. I have a full gallery of crappy landings done in a Mooney.


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[Shadrach]

Once after departing KANP into the DC SFRA I could not get a word in edgewise on Freq. Two transmissions, both stepped on by others.  Shortly thereafter, the controller (who was expecting me) asked if I was on Freq and I immediately replied and explained that I had been trying to establish comms.  He said no problem and I thought that we were all good. Two sectors later before leaving the SFRA a different controller gives me an extended lecture on freq about establishing communication in the SFRA and how I had "deliberately" ignored the rules after departing KANP.  I was taken aback at first and then annoyed that the situation was being mischaracterized on frequency by someone who was not a witness to the actual incident.  I told him as much and asked for a phone number to further discuss. His tone changed and he said that there was no need as I need not worry about a violation. I said that I appreciated that but I still wanted a phone number.  He told me to standby.  He came back with a number a few moments later.   I landed, put the plane away and organized my thoughts ahead of the call.  When the other end picked up, I had a good laugh...The controller had given me the promo number for a Florida time share. I decided to leave well enough alone.

[ZuluZulu]

56 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Setting up a camera works better. I have a full gallery of crappy landings in done in a Mooney.


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Not me.  All of my landings are picture-perfect.  [file not found]

[philip_g]

8 hours ago, GeeBee said:

he likely be disqualified at the position.

 

No.

[philip_g]

5 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Controllers don’t want to report you either because the tapes get reviewed for a certain amount of time (I forgot how long) before and after the incident. If the controller did anything wrong, even if completely unrelated to the incident, they can get “remediated” 

Mmmmm maybe but mostly not really. QA might spot check a few sessions but unless there's a fatality, not really. That's all I have to say on either subject.

Edited April 6, 2022 by philip_g

[GeeBee]

9 minutes ago, philip_g said:

No.

So you are saying that after a near mid-air a controller will be returned to his position without retraining or a recheck?

 

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

Setting up a camera works better. I have a full gallery of crappy landings done in a Mooney.


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Yours?

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Yours?

Must be. I've not knowingly landed anywhere near @Marauder!

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, ZuluZulu said:

Not me.  All of my landings are picture-perfect.  [file not found]

Just as all moneys spent on our Mooneys is never to be recorded anywhere, all less-than-perfect landings are excluded from memory, or any archive....since they do not exist.

Should a less-than-perfect landing actually be recorded, that record will immediately do a "HunterBidenLaptop" disappearance.

[Marauder]

Yours?

They are buried deep in a NSA folder somewhere.


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[philip_g]

8 hours ago, GeeBee said:

So you are saying that after a near mid-air a controller will be returned to his position without retraining or a recheck?

 

Yes. And they're probably not even immediately pulled off position. As I said. That's all I have to say on the subject.

Edited April 7, 2022 by philip_g

[GeeBee]

In my case, the guy involved I know personally, he goes to my church. He had to re-qualify on his position.

 

[Mcstealth]

19 hours ago, Marauder said:

Setting up a camera works better. I have a full gallery of crappy landings done in a Mooney.


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Probably because your passengers screwed up the WB? 

 

[bmcconnaha]

one time i was almost vectered into a mountain.  It was VMC, i just responded unable, there is a mountain there.  I asked for a number, but it was mainly becasue she sounded attractive