Mooney m20m bravo real world weight and balance?

[Ripley98]

Considering the idea of moving to a bravo from our m20f executive. The cruise speed is very appealing but the payload has me concerned. The F model we currently have, I can fill up completely and still carry 650lbs. I would like to be able to do that with a bravo but it seems like a unrealistic goal. From the numbers, it seems like a 2 person airplane with full fuel. Is there any real world figures from anyone on the forum?

 

Anyone have a suggestion on a upgrade from the f model? Needing a true 4 person airplane with considerable usable fuel. Really want to like the newer long body versions but the weight is a huge factor.

 

 

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[ArtVandelay]

I thought all long bodies are UL challenged (more metal, bigger engines), pretty sure Encore (mid body) is best for largest UL.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, Ripley98 said:

 

Considering the idea of moving to a bravo from our m20f executive. The cruise speed is very appealing but the payload has me concerned. The F model we currently have, I can fill up completely and still carry 650lbs. I would like to be able to do that with a bravo but it seems like a unrealistic goal. From the numbers, it seems like a 2 person airplane with full fuel. Is there any real world figures from anyone on the forum?

 

Anyone have a suggestion on a upgrade from the f model? Needing a true 4 person airplane with considerable usable fuel. Really want to like the newer long body versions but the weight is a huge factor.

 

 

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I just sold a Bravo that had older heavier avionics and vacuum systems removed. The Useful Load was 1032 lbs. Mine was a '93. They got heavier throughout the Bravo series with nice interior, etc.

[Danb]

They vary quite a bit, my 2005 Bravo has a UL of 1020. If FIKI or air conditioner the UL drops depends on how equipped 

[BravoWhiskey]

I also have a 2005 and my UL is 850 with FIKI and AC

[mike_elliott]

I used to use 450# for my full fuel payload planning 1999 Bravo

[Cayman44]

If four pax is your goal, why not buy an '83 Cessna 172p/180 with 700+ pounds for people? And with full, 40 gal fuel you have 3+ hours of fuel. In my '89 Bravo, most folks I travel will have 3.5 hour bladders, so I don't need to load all 89 gallons, but I sure go a lot farther in that 3.5 hours. If it's just me and full fuel, I can fly from Denver to Long Island with one fuel stop - in one day.  I like all the flexibility the Bravo gives me - especially with big tail winds flying in the high teens or anywhere in between.  You have to wake up Center to pass you to the next sector you are so alone up there.  My speed is based on altitude.  I know many Bravo/Mooney pilots tweak the numbers to perfection.  With my GAMI's, I cruise at 13.5 gph at all altitudes (30"&2300).  At 17,000 that could be 192 kts TAS or 165 kts at 6,000 on my MT prop.  Not perfect, but close enough.

[philiplane]

Define the mission first, then find the plane. It may not be a Bravo. Passenger weight and size is the first factor, and speed to destination is the second factor. Comfort becomes increasingly important if you want those passengers to fly with you more than once. 3 hours in a cramped cabin versus 3.5 hours in comfort. Comfort will win every time.

Cruise speed, 155 knots versus 190 knots. With the Bravo, you can only fly 2.5 hours with reserves with four aboard. Which translates into 80 miles farther, 475 miles, versus 388 for the M20F. Or it shaves 20 minutes off that 388 mile trip. The point is, it takes a lot of speed to make much of a difference on any trip. On trips less than 500 miles, even a 50 knot increase doesn't make a huge difference because you spend more time climbing in order to get the speed. 

We all tend to want a particular plane, then make it fit the mission. It's backwards though.

To go fast in a Bravo, you need to go high, but to go high, you need a lot of fuel, which limits your passenger load. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by philiplane

[PilotX]

1053 UL. I can carry 118 gallons of fuel which leaves very little useful load. But I typically only fly with 60 gallons. 

[daytonabch04]

Just had my 2001 Bravo weighed less than 2 months ago.  Weight 2434; useful load 934.  No FIKI, no AC. 

[Niko182]

If you want useful load, the encore or screaming eagle is the way to go. Both have the ability to have 1100+ useful loads without too much hassle.

[rbp]

On 12/5/2021 at 1:51 PM, philiplane said:

Define the mission first, then find the plane

if I had done that, i'd be in a 182. No thanks.  

[Boilermonkey]

M20M owner here.  I rarely fly with full tanks with passengers.  At some point someone needs to empty their bladder or eat.  I'm in a 2 person partnership, we always leave the plane with 65 gallons in it for exactly this reason.  We typically fly with 65 gallons and the following combinations (1Adult + 3kids, 2A+2K, 3A) some baggage, but not much.  65 Gallons depending on how you fly is about 3 hours plus reserve.  With Mooney speed that's pretty far when compared to other aircraft that can carry more, but are slower.

That being said my deal when getting into a M20M with a family of 5 was that I would fly the kids and my wife would take commercial (usually first on points) and two big suitcases.  She get a day without kids.  I get a day with kids and flying.  Everyone is a winner!

[carusoam]

@Ripley98

Problem solved…

1) go Mooney….

2) Determine payload of people and stuff…. 
3) Fill fuel to MGTW…

4) The PIC has value… he gets to decide how much stuff and people fit and can be lifted by the plane….

5) A plane that can fill all the seats and all of the tanks… is artificially constrained somehow… not enough seats, or not enough tank capacity….

6) Mooneys have plenty of seats, and plenty of fuel capacity…

The special thing about Mooneys….

They carry a huge amount of weight…..

They have the flexibility that other planes don’t have….

If you only have one or two people aboard…. You can potentially fill to 130 gallons and fly 1k+nm….

 

I think you missed something when stating full fuel….

Marketing groups around the world goof this up as if full fuel means something….

A plane that carries full fuel and four adults has tiny tanks….  Imagine the surprise of the new owner that now wants to get extended tanks…. To fly long XCs….

Marketing 101 for airplane sellers….

If you are familiar with the laws of physics… you can kindly ignore the airplane marketing guys…. They mean well…. 
 

Fortunately, you have come to the right place….

Using a WnB app is really easy…

After a while, you find you load the same plane the same way several times… 

 

While you are at it…. Look up take-off performance…. Another topic that doesn’t get covered really well by Marketing guys….

When you hear the phrase…. “I fill the tanks and the seats all the time” ask for the details that go with that….  Some planes don’t fly more than an hour….  Mooneys have the fuel capacity to fly from 5-8 hours depending on power selected….

If going in extra efficiency mode… one M20E has been proven to cross the USA in one single flight…. Ocean to Ocean….

 

Back to the Bravo…

If the M20F works for you….

The M20J was an improvement on all levels…

The M20K wan an improvement over the M20J for its skills in the FLs….

The TLS came next… it didn’t take long to become the Bravo…. The Bravo has several improvements over the M20K….

The Acclaim came next…. More improvements…..

 

If your argument is that UL is the only thing you want…. Find the Mooney with the best UL…. It is very close 1200LBs…. Read up on the Eagle….

Getting to the Long Body level of flying gets you further away from the simplicity of jumping in the plane and going flying….

But, it is worth it…. 
 

One day, you will get so good at flying the Bravo…. Many flights will feel like you are jumping in the plane and simply going flying…   Because you have done all the legwork and technology that is available makes it easy to be fully informed….

One question…. Are you sure you want to fly in the flight levels?  This is where turbos really make sense….

Go Bravo!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[rbp]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:39 AM, carusoam said:

One day, you will get so good at flying the Bravo…. Many flights will feel like you are jumping in the plane and simply going flying

Truth x 100

[Steve2]

My old Bravo N243CW (2003-2006) had long range fuel (118gal) & FIKI, payload with full fuel & TKS fluid was 90lbs!  You definatly needed to be comfortable with partial fuel loads, wing sight gauges helped with that. 

[irishpilot]

I sold my Bravo because UL was too limiting for a family of four. Mine was a 2000 with FIKI and 862 UL. That being said, it is awesome for 2 ppl + bags and full fuel. Quite a capable plane.

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