Source for gear clutch backspring

[alexz]

Hello, does any one knows who sells springs clutch “no-back”. Mooney part number 203207-1 ?

Looks like factory new that was installed on gear actuator by previous owner was “cold” bent at the factory and actuator does backup the gear.

Thank you. Alex. 

[PT20J]

Order them through any Mooney Service Center.

[alexz]

3 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Order them through any Mooney Service Center.

Looks like couple I called are out of them and it’s 3-4 month wait…

[GeeBee]

You may have to call them all.

[PT20J]

Just now, alexz said:

Looks like couple I called are out of them and it’s 3-4 month wait…

Mooney ordered a batch a while back but I guess they sold them all. Whoever makes them apparently makes them to order. 

[ArtVandelay]

Mooney ordered a batch a while back but I guess they sold them all. Whoever makes them apparently makes them to order. 

How many did they order? 10? I would have them make 500, it’s not like they take up much space.

[alexz]

8 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

How many did they order? 10? I would have them make 500, it’s not like they take up much space.

It appears no one in the whole country have that little part in stock. So they probably do make them in batches of 10 once every 3-4 months. 

[Will.iam]

Damn better order mine now, i might get it for my annual this time next year. 

[Danb]

When I did the back spring, it was a few months wait until the factory made a batch.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

How many did they order? 10? I would have them make 500, it’s not like they take up much space.

Unfortunately if Mooney doesn't have the capital to build airplanes (only explanation since airplanes are selling like crazy right now) they surely don't have $500,000 (retail price) to spend on no-back springs sitting on the shelf.

[Hank]

Just visited my favorite spring manufacturer's website (www.leespring.com) and checked a random SS spring:

• Qty 1 @ $13.110 each = $13.11
• Qty 100 @ 4.070 each = $407.00
• Qty 500 @ $2.304 each = $1152.00

The power of bulk purchasing. And these are retail prices, not wholesale to a manufacturer. Long, long way from 500 AMU inventory for Mooney to carry. And there is certainly demand for these springs.

[alexz]

47 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Unfortunately if Mooney doesn't have the capital to build airplanes (only explanation since airplanes are selling like crazy right now) they surely don't have $500,000 (retail price) to spend on no-back springs sitting on the shelf.

I can’t believe it cost that much to manufacture 1000 springs. I would guess with all ISO processes in place - 50 to 120k. And most qualified machine shops should be able to produce this simple part with proper heat treatment and bends which are not done on a cold metal (as Mooney did once, and called it a good part)

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:52 PM, alexz said:

I can’t believe it cost that much to manufacture 1000 springs. I would guess with all ISO processes in place - 50 to 120k. And most qualified machine shops should be able to produce this simple part with proper heat treatment and bends which are not done on a cold metal (as Mooney did once, and called it a good part)

Mooney doesn't manufacture the springs, they buy them. I agree buying a run of 1000 would get the per unit cost down considerably. And let's say they can buy 500 for $75,000 and sell them for $500,000 over the next 5 years. That still doesn't work. They aren't Textron or Piper or Cirrus. They are an airplane manufacturing company that is not manufacturing airplanes and are hanging on in survival mode. They don't have $75,000 to tie up on one part of the many thousands of parts in their catalog, just to sit on the shelf. They are making and ordering parts as they have sure sales, that's why there are backorders, and we should be thankful at least for that. Buying 10 springs at a time is a clear indication of where they are financially.

[carusoam]

Add it to the long list of what Mooney could have done, should have done….

1) To avoid having the spring…

2) To avoid having the spring fail…

3) To avoid what happens next when the spring does fail…

4) To avoid the faulty process at the spring shop…

 

Or we could discuss the other things that fail, that should be on a shelf somewhere, but aren’t…

5) Ever try to find an OilP sensor for a modern Mooney?

6) Replacement is months away at a high cost….

 

Or… we could keep it positive… and see who has one of these things on the shelf…  some people actually keep an inventory for these known devils…

Stay positive, you never know who has one of these things or the other…

Complaint sessions don’t always get somebody motivated enough to go look.

 

I wonder if there is one in Canada? There is a really good MSC toward the Eastern end of the country… 

Let’s ask @M20Doc to see if he has seen any new ones lately (looking for a no back clutch spring (?))

PP thoughts only, not a sunshine blower for the Mooney factory…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[carusoam]

Alex,

When it comes to calling MSCs some are way better than the others….

Some carry serious inventories and have serious skills for OHing various Mooney parts…

Did you call Dan at Lasar?

Did you speak with anyone at DMax?

Who did you call?

Because there are few really good MSCs…  finding this part shouldn’t be that elusive…

Best regards,

-a-

[alexz]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Alex,

When it comes to calling MSCs some are way better than the others….

Some carry serious inventories and have serious skills for OHing various Mooney parts…

Did you call Dan at Lasar?

yes 

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Did you speak with anyone at DMax?

yes

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Who did you call?

Around 20 of them from the list. Most don’t carry this kit in inventory. Most refer back to Lasar or DMax

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Because there are few really good MSCs…  finding this part shouldn’t be that elusive…

Best regards,

-a-

I suspect I’m currently working with one of the best MSC, they do order it 8 months ahead, mine was new for them since we did not expect overhauled actuator to contain bad spring. 

[ArtVandelay]

I suspect I’m currently working with one of the best MSC, they do order it 8 months ahead, mine was new for them since we did not expect overhauled actuator to contain bad spring. 

How many hours did you have on it?
You’re the 1st case of an actual bad spring, most replaced due to exceeding the 1000 suggested TBOs.

[carusoam]

Usually the bad springs let themselves be known by separating into two distinct parts…

Thus disabling the whole gear system…

-a-

[alexz]

1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

How many hours did you have on it?
You’re the 1st case of an actual bad spring, most replaced due to exceeding the 1000 suggested TBOs.

The actuator was replaced with overhauled 130 Hours ago. Turns out whoever did the install did not adjust gears correctly and there was no correct preload in main gears (pretty much none, it’s a miracle it did it not fold).  Once we fixed it, actuator started to back-drive once gears are fully extended. I.e gear ligh come up and the next seconds goes out. Same thing with manual extension, once extended manually and we push gear fuse back in, gear light goes out. 

[carusoam]

Let’s see if anyone on the other side of the pond has any ideas…

@Hyett6420 may be familiar with who may have a no back clutch spring…. In his part of the Mooney world… 

Andrew has some nice pics of what the spring looks like… and at the surface of the crummy heat treatment…

Best regards,

-a-

[alexz]

6 minutes ago, carusoam said:

6 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Usually the bad springs let themselves be known by separating into two distinct parts…

Thus disabling the whole gear system…

-a-

Apparently there was a batch of defective ones that where showing stress and excessive buckling at the bend, not fitting in the actuator correctly. Some of them made into the field. Looks like overhauled actuator that I got has one. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by alexz

[ArtVandelay]

Anyone know who the manufacturer is?
I wonder what a direct MS group buy would cost?
I assume other retracts use these actuators?

[carusoam]

Owner produced parts of a spring…?

Looks like this situation could call for that…

 

Alex,  have you called the factory directly to discuss the situation you have, and the efforts that you have put in?

The factory is still alive… they have email addresses that help find the right contact…

 

If I knew the guy’s name in the area of parts… I’d be practicing my friendly phone skills… our contact there (Stacey) recently moved on after doing a great job during decades of tough work…

Somebody there really does know customers, planes, and how to run a business…

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

I at one time I’d ordered & stocked 5 for my customer base.  All were used up, I’ve got more ordered now.

Clarence

[alexz]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I at one time I’d ordered & stocked 5 for my customer base.  All were used up, I’ve got more ordered now.

Clarence

Hello Clarence, any idea one ETA for your springs, trying to guess wait time….

Thanks.