Aircraft radio station license

[JimB]

Looking at getting this just to be covered for a trip to the Bahamas and Canada later this year. Are the fees really $170 for the aircraft radio station license? And the radiotelephone operator permit is $70? and the annual customs sticker is $27.50? Sound right?

[smwash02]

That all sounds about right and should be all you need.

The radio station license lasts 10 years and is tied to the N number, the restricted radiotelephone operator permit is lifetime for you. My 2021 sticker from DTOPS was $29.96 this year. It has been going up each year for the past 3 or so.

Have fun!

[kortopates]

Yep the station license is expensive, but I don't know how many pilots actually buy the FAA licenses since no one in North America or Central America will ask you for them, at least not Canada, nor Bahamas nor Mexico nor CENAM. Been traveling beyond our borders for over 20 years now and I am convinced only the FCC cares and nobody else. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by kortopates

[JimB]

58 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Yep the station license is expensive, but I don't know how many pilots actually buy the FAA licenses since no one in North America or Central America will ask you for them, at least not Canada, nor Bahamas nor Mexico nor CENAM. Been traveling beyond our borders for over 20 years now and I am convinced only the FCC cares and nobody else. 

Fully understand and agree. I just figured it was one less thing to worry about. And I'm not even sure the FCC cares. I think it's an ICAO or IATA requirement and has little to do with GA. 

[kortopates]

24 minutes ago, JimB said:

Fully understand and agree. I just figured it was one less thing to worry about. And I'm not even sure the FCC cares. I think it's an ICAO or IATA requirement and has little to do with GA. 

Absolutely, it comes from ICAO - https://www.icao.int/EURNAT/Pages/FAQ/faq_radio_licence.aspx But of course our FAA dropped the requirement many years ago for the US and other countries never ask for it. Of course  I say only the FCC cares because they're the only ones that benefit from us purchasing. 

It certainy doesn't hurt to have them, I went many years without them on my second plane since nobody cared when I had them on my first plane. But you can also email or call your ports of entry to verify if your destinations are firm. One improvement though is I recall the FCC licenses are automated now on their website - no longer have to wait for months to get them in the mail - you just print them out. But the fees are still crazy. 

[smwash02]

My experience, though less lengthy, mirrors @kortopates; however, I continue to buy it because at $17/year for the operator permit it is less than 5 minutes of the cost of the lawyer I'd have to hire to get me out of trouble should someone decide to enforce the rule.

[PeteMc]

$17/year ???????

Umm...  Is the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit no longer Lifetime?  As in no renewal necessary.  I have to admit I haven't paid attention if they changed it.

 

[smwash02]

7 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

$17/year ???????

Umm...  Is the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit no longer Lifetime?  As in no renewal necessary.  I have to admit I haven't paid attention if they changed it.

 

There are two FCC items required:

1) The "Restricted Radio Telephone Operator Permit", which is lifetime and tied to you the operator.

2) The "Radio Station Authorization", which expires after 10 years and is tied to the N number. I came up with $17/year based on the $170 figure listed above.

[PeteMc]

Ah, got it!  Thought you were paying an annual fee for the  ROP. 

(I was going to offer you a deal on some great property "near the beach" if you were paying someone $17/yr!)

[jlunseth]

The Bahamas requires it, but as Paul said, I have never been asked. Their interest is getting the custom forms, a cruising permit if you are going to move around within the Bahamas, and the head tax or exit tax. One the plus side, I believe their is a fuel "bonus" still being paid for flying in to the Bahamas.

Once upon a time I had to do an emergency landing in Canada that was unplanned so we had no passports, etc., etc. They wanted to see some form of insurance, and settled for my auto insurance card, but never asked for any aircraft documentation or radio licenses. 

That said, it is cheaper to buy the prevention than to get into trouble and buy the forgiveness.

[Ibra]

I was asked to show my "FCC pilot paper" when renting N-tails (for flying outside the US), I did not get into the nitty details if having an ICAO RT piece of paper is equivalent but I imagine it would cost more than $70/lifetime to get a yes anwser from the FCC, it's pay first then we can talk 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Ibra

[Unit74]

Nobody cares about that noise in BHS. They want your dollars. Period.  Passport, cash for the fees, VAT of anything that looks like it’s expensive. Done.   Been to,BHS many times the past 4 years in my plane.  Never been asked for anything plane related ever. They don’t care. Did I mention they want your money, cash preferred! 

[PT20J]

I bought one too for flights to Canada, though I've never been asked. I just figured that with my luck, I'd be the one when someday they decide to clamp down.

I used to fly part 135 into and out of Canada. No one ever asked anything about the airplane going either way. BUT, US customs ALWAYS wanted to see my airman and medical certificates. Finally, I asked them why and was told that the FAA asked them to check -- apparently they catch a few pilots every year.

Skip

[yvesg]

We do not have any radio licenses in Canada tied to our airplanes. Not sure why visitors would need one?

 

Yves

[A64Pilot]

I’ve flown into the Bahamas several times and cruised there for years in our boat. The Bahamian people by and large are very, almost exceedingly polite. I think that may come from the British influence? Anyway the secret to getting along with customs etc is to be very polite back and say things like yes Mam and thank you and display respect. If your polite and respectful you can get almost anything you want, they may even fill out the forms for you  

Be the “ugly American” and you may not. I’ve seen it several times, polite people they treat like family, not so polite people will dot every I and cross every T, and again I believe maybe from the British influence, if they so desire there are quite a few I’s and T’s.

‘To enjoy the Bahama’s get away from Nassau and Freeport, your not in the Bahama’s until you get into what they call the Family Islands, expect something like 1950’s America or Andy Griffith’s Mayberry. The big cities have crime and a great deal of that is imported from other Nations.

If you commit some kind of crime in the Family Islands they ship you off to jail in Nassau, where you most likely stay.

‘They could care less about your radio license or any thing else if your nice and wait your turn, not will they inspect your airplane either.

‘Your problem will be upon return to the US, CBP can be a PIA, I avoid Key West like the Plague, however Ft. Pierce is a nice place to check in.

Edited March 30, 2021 by A64Pilot

[PeteMc]

I think the people that have had an issue with not having the Station License is not while they are in other countries.  As you've found, they could care less.

The problem is that the FCC has asked the CBP to inspect for the Station License on your return to the US.  Most people say they are not asked.  But I don't think you want to get one of those agents wanting to take a closer look at you just because you don't have a Station License.

 

[4cornerflyer]

There is no factual basis for the above statement, that the US Customs service has been tasked by the Federal Communications Commission to demand radio licenses.  The document U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION GUIDE FOR PRIVATE FLYERS lists what is required:

If requested, the pilot must be able to produce for inspection, a valid airman's certificate or a pilot's certificate or license, a medical certificate, and the aircraft registration certificate (19 CFR 122.27[c]). Failure to present the required documentation could result in civil penalties of $5,000 per violation.

Yes, a Customs officer could theoretically ask about a radio license, just like he may ask for your recent tax returns, or just about anything else you could think of. Per the Customs Service, that is not something you are required to produce or show. You may decide it isn't worth the perceived hassle to not carry the radio licenses. However, if a US citizen returning to the country has been asked for these documents by a US Customs officer in the past decade, I would like to hear about it. 

 

Jon

 

[PeteMc]

Well...  Guess it's possible they don't check anymore, but I wouldn't want to risk it for a few buck just because they don't generally ask.

As for my statement, AOPA usually research these things pretty thoroughly.  You might not want to call someone out without first checking. 

"...U.S. Customs has been given the job of enforcing the FCC regulations for U.S. registered aircraft entering the United States to see if they had one while flying internationally..."

Source: https://www.aopa.org/travel/international-travel/aircraft-radio-station-licenses-and-pilot-radio-operator-certificates

 

[RobertGary1]

I've never bothered with the stickers. I don't really care for stickers on my plane. I'll just pay each time. I bring the form with me so I just hand them a new app each time I cross. They take credit cards so I just put in CC on the form. A few weeks later a sticker shows up in the mail and I just throw it away.

 

-Robert

[WilliamR]

@RobertGary1Then what do you put in eApis?  It asks for a sticker number.  Just 9's, make one up?

Btw, I don't like stickers on the outside of my plane either.  I put it on the main door frame so when the door is closed you can't see it, when open it's viewable.  That meets the letter of the law...must be within 18 inches of normal boarding door and visible when all doors/hatches are open.

 

William

 

 

[PeteMc]

I always put them on the baggage door, you flip it open and the sticker is there.  Been a while since I've been to Canada, but coming back they always had me open up the baggage door anyway, so figured it was a good place to put it.