Aerocruz autopilot

[Planegary]

I contacted Bendixking this week and inquired about any motion on the certification on the autopilot for the shortbody mooneys specifically mine 1965 m20 E. Shane phillips responded and said the certification should be complete in Q3 or Q4 for anybody inteested in a basic autopilot

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Planegary said:

I contacted Bendixking this week and inquired about any motion on the certification on the autopilot for the shortbody mooneys specifically mine 1965 m20 E. Shane phillips responded and said the certification should be complete in Q3 or Q4 for anybody inteested in a basic autopilot

Thanks.

Did you ask which year for Q3 or Q4?

[Planegary]

well he said this year but lets see how the certification goes. I wouldn't be betting big dollars on it but will be excited if it happens since it will be an option at least

 

[carusoam]

Gary,

I’m glad you called... and got the year...  

+2 on the Mooney Communicator Scale!

Nice work.

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

Would that require a currently installed KFC 150? Currently I think the STC is only for retrofitting that autopliot. I called regarding extending the approval to the KAP 150 for the M20J in January and was told it is still not approved, but check back mid-year. 

Skip

[Planegary]

I think that the replacement is for the 230 Cruz. This the most basic autopilot w/o approach capability

[gsxrpilot]

They are all Aerocruz autopilots. There is the Aerocruz 100 and the Aerocruz 230.

[ZuluZulu]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

They are all Aerocruz autopilots. There is the Aerocruz 100 and the Aerocruz 230.

You’re thinking of the AeroCruze.  The Aerocruz is a different product that automatically flies direct to Cancun. 

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

You’re thinking of the AeroCruze.  The Aerocruz is a different product that automatically flies direct to Cancun. 

and then returns immediately

[N205S]

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

Would that require a currently installed KFC 150? Currently I think the STC is only for retrofitting that autopliot. I called regarding extending the approval to the KAP 150 for the M20J in January and was told it is still not approved, but check back mid-year. 

Skip

I’d be looking at a similar upgrade path, as I’m flying behind the KAP 150 now.

[kortopates]

11 minutes ago, N205S said:

I’d be looking at a similar upgrade path, as I’m flying behind the KAP 150 now.

I assume you'd be more interested in the upgrade path to the Aerocruze 230 - this thread is really about the Aerocruze 100 - which is a fresh install (very simple AP and very affordable as mentioned - I think this was previously known as the TruTack)

[PT20J]

14 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I assume you'd be more interested in the upgrade path to the Aerocruze 230 - this thread is really about the Aerocruze 100 - which is a fresh install (very simple AP and very affordable as mentioned - I think this was previously known as the TruTack)

Paul -- thanks for the clarification -- I totally missed that rebranding point.

Skip

[Niko182]

You should post this in the aviation jokes post.

[Planegary]

as for the autopilot not being certified for the mooney's I guess i am a bit of an optomist and really hope for it to happen. I understand the history but I don't want to be a Downer Dan and assume the worst since being an optomist wont cost me anything since I am not being asked to front any money. By the way Downer Dan is a pilot we used to work with that, due to his demeanor, made for a looooong week and was not aimed at anybody here

[Oldguy]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:05 PM, PT20J said:

Would that require a currently installed KFC 150? Currently I think the STC is only for retrofitting that autopilot. I called regarding extending the approval to the KAP 150 for the M20J in January and was told it is still not approved, but check back mid-year. 

Skip

 

On 3/6/2021 at 8:07 PM, N205S said:

I’d be looking at a similar upgrade path, as I’m flying behind the KAP 150 now.

I have been following the "progress" of the AeroCruze 230 for a while, waiting, like Skip, for it to be approved to replace my KAP 150. So out of frustration, I started doing some digging and came across some confusing information. In the AeroCruze 230 AML it lists the Make, Model, and Pre-Requisite STC  for the autopilot it is replacing and not the model of the autopilot. For my J model, STC SA1561CE-D covers the installation of the KAP 100, KAP 150, and the KFC 150 and is identified as the required pre-requisite STC for a Mooney J model in order for the AeroCruze 230 to be installed. In my pea-brained mind, the AeroCruze 230 STC authorizes replacement of my KAP 150 within the AML. While I am not an attorney - FAA or otherwise - can someone explain to me my obvious misinterpretation of the AML? Not saying I am going to rush out and install one tomorrow, but if it is approved for a KAP 150 replacement via the AML, why couldn't those of us brave enough to replace our KAP 150 with one not do so?

Granted, they can't even get the information in the correct columns, but let's ignore that problem...

[Niko182]

23 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

why couldn't those of us brave enough to replace our KAP 150 with one not do so?

I doubt it actually physically exists.

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

 

I have been following the "progress" of the AeroCruze 230 for a while, waiting, like Skip, for it to be approved to replace my KAP 150. So out of frustration, I started doing some digging and came across some confusing information. In the AeroCruze 230 AML it lists the Make, Model, and Pre-Requisite STC  for the autopilot it is replacing and not the model of the autopilot. For my J model, STC SA1561CE-D covers the installation of the KAP 100, KAP 150, and the KFC 150 and is identified as the required pre-requisite STC for a Mooney J model in order for the AeroCruze 230 to be installed. In my pea-brained mind, the AeroCruze 230 STC authorizes replacement of my KAP 150 within the AML. While I am not an attorney - FAA or otherwise - can someone explain to me my obvious misinterpretation of the AML? Not saying I am going to rush out and install one tomorrow, but if it is approved for a KAP 150 replacement via the AML, why couldn't those of us brave enough to replace our KAP 150 with one not do so?

Granted, they can't even get the information in the correct columns, but let's ignore that problem...

Well, this is pretty interesting. Back in November 2020, BK announced that the approval had been extended to aircraft with KFC 200 autopilots installed. This is obviously a much bigger change than retrofitting a KAP 150. The AML snippet posted is dated 7/18/19 and  mentions only that it assumes that a KFC 150 is installed and doesn't even mention the KFC 200. When I emailed BK earlier this year I was told that the KAP 150 was not approved. So, I've pretty much lost confidence in BK. They don't seem very eager to get these into the market and I'd be afraid of support if I were to buy one. Seems like Garmin ate their lunch -- again.

Skip

[ZuluZulu]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

Well, this is pretty interesting. Back in November 2020, BK announced that the approval had been extended to aircraft with KFC 200 autopilots installed. This is obviously a much bigger change than retrofitting a KAP 150. The AML snippet posted is dated 7/18/19 and  mentions only that it assumes that a KFC 150 is installed and doesn't even mention the KFC 200. When I emailed BK earlier this year I was told that the KAP 150 was not approved. So, I've pretty much lost confidence in BK. They don't seem very eager to get these into the market and I'd be afraid of support if I were to buy one. Seems like Garmin ate their lunch -- again.

Skip

Join me on the dark side, Skip.  I replaced the KAP 150 in my MSE with a GFC 500 and it's fantastic!

[PT20J]

1 minute ago, ZuluZulu said:

Join me on the dark side, Skip.  I replaced the KAP 150 in my MSE with a GFC 500 and it's fantastic!

I  might. The problem is, I have an Aspen and GNS 430W installed by the previous owner. If I were going to install a GFC 500, then I'd put in a G3X and a couple of G5s for backup and a GTN 650 and CiES fuel senders and an EDM 900 and GTN 650xi and GNC 255 and a GMA 340 because I'm only going to tear the airplane apart once. All that trouble would get a fancy panel that doesn't really add any utility or make the airplane go faster. What I'd be buying is reliability and ease of use due to better integration.

Skip

[ZuluZulu]

1 minute ago, PT20J said:

I  might. The problem is, I have an Aspen and GNS 430W installed by the previous owner. If I were going to install a GFC 500, then I'd put in a G3X and a couple of G5s for backup and a GTN 650 and CiES fuel senders and an EDM 900 and GTN 650xi and GNC 255 and a GMA 340 because I'm only going to tear the airplane apart once. All that trouble would get a fancy panel that doesn't really add any utility or make the airplane go faster. What I'd be buying is reliability and ease of use due to better integration.

Skip

Sounds nice, but I hear you.  I'm doing it because I bought this plane intending to keep it for the next 20 years.  And unlike yours, I didn't inherit a PFD (but mine did have a GTN 750 installed already).  If you're at all close to selling, the new panel would probably help move it faster .... but that doesn't do much for you now, I recognize.  Still though.  The AP flies on rails and I haven't even started flying approaches with it yet.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I doubt it actually physically exists.

 

[Niko182]

I guess I stand corrected. That however doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't touch that autopilot with a 10 foot pole. I can just imagine all the nightmares to deal with down the road.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Niko182

[aviatoreb]

17 hours ago, PT20J said:

...When I emailed BK earlier this year I was told that the KAP 150 was not approved. So, I've pretty much lost confidence in BK. They don't seem very eager to get these into the market and I'd be afraid of support if I were to buy one. Seems like Garmin ate their lunch -- again.

Really Garmin is not outcompeting BK.  BK is simply rolling over and dying.  I cannot image investing in a new aerocruze 230 from a completely erratic and unreliable company as shown from this behavior of previewing a vapor ware product and then the Q3 story that runs for a decade.  And we all know that expensive avionics like an autopilot is only as good as the support if and when it breaks.  At least with legacy BK products - from back when it was a real company - is available from quality companies like autopilot central.

Garmin is a company as far as autopilot is concerned that we know will be there if support is needed in a few years.

[markgrue]

I hope to see the BK autopilot soon.  I will not install any Garmin products in my aircraft for the simple reason that Garmin does not support their legacy products.  For a prime example look at the GNS 430 or the GNS 530.  What happens when they decide that everyone who has bought the GFC 500 needs to buy something new and stops supporting it?  I can still buy a new KX165 just like I could 20 years ago.  I can still get my KX155 repaired.  I hope to have my aircraft for years to come and hope to be able to get support for my avionics until I sell it.  My opinion is only that so it is worth just what you paid for it.

 

Mark

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, markgrue said:

I hope to see the BK autopilot soon.  I will not install any Garmin products in my aircraft for the simple reason that Garmin does not support their legacy products.  For a prime example look at the GNS 430 or the GNS 530.  What happens when they decide that everyone who has bought the GFC 500 needs to buy something new and stops supporting it?  I can still buy a new KX165 just like I could 20 years ago.  I can still get my KX155 repaired.  I hope to have my aircraft for years to come and hope to be able to get support for my avionics until I sell it.  My opinion is only that so it is worth just what you paid for it.

 

Mark

The gns430 was offered in 1998.  Garmin was repairing them until very recently.

Now they are offering a $3700 upgrade path exchange to a modern $3800.

compare that to a KFC200 autopilot - if I want to get bk to do anything to any component of my autopilot then they want astronomical prices.  I remember 6 or 7 years ago and my trim switch broke and they wanted $2500 for a trim switch that they were selling just two years prior for $900 - I managed to find a new old stock one on a shelf somewhere for $1100 no thanks to BK.  This is an item that cost like $10 bucks to build if its not an aviation product.  To actually buy or repair a servo from them is many times greater than that exchange path for the gns430.

If BK is still willing in 20 years?!

Dynon might be a good alternative soon.

Trutrek selling their concept was a great disappointment.