COVID 19 Vaccination Discussion

[aviatoreb]

Just now, MooneyMitch said:

I really don’t know....... so much weirdness these days .

Maybe a special tshirt that says bank robber and a big black cowboy hat?

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW,

on the way home I stopped at a truck stop. It had signs all over it saying that masks were required. I didn’t have one. I decided to go in anyway, they can only kick me out.

The cashier took off her mask and told me my soda was on the house.

It seems the masses are rebelling against this foolishness.

[EricJ]

6 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

It seems the masses are rebelling against this foolishness.

It's probably also why covid rates are increasing here.

 

[MikeOH]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:57 PM, jaylw314 said:

One could argue that antibody quantity has not been proven to be predictive of degree of immunity, but lacking any other good measurements, it seems like a reasonable proxy.

 

On 4/17/2021 at 1:45 PM, jaylw314 said:

True, but I suggest caution with the use of the phrase "educated guess."  I see it commonly used these days to support the fallacy of equivalency

Hmm, lacking actual supporting data makes "seems like a reasonable proxy" not a whole lot different from "educated guess."

Almost up there with "follow the science."

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, EricJ said:

It's probably also why covid rates are increasing here.

 

No way of knowing that. It is getting hotter too, maybe that’s the cause?

[aviatoreb]

Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

No way of knowing that. It is getting hotter too, maybe that’s the cause?

In fact, it's impossible to know anything.  In fact, facts don't exist.

[N201MKTurbo]

Well, I heard from Walgreens corporate the other day. I asked where I could get the opt-out form that is mentioned in the fine print of their consent form. It specifically says that the provider (Walgreens) would supply the form. Nobody knows anything about it. It has been referred to the legal department.

[Tony Starke]

42 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

FWIW,

on the way home I stopped at a truck stop. It had signs all over it saying that masks were required. I didn’t have one. I decided to go in anyway, they can only kick me out.

The cashier took off her mask and told me my soda was on the house.

It seems the masses are rebelling against this foolishness.

Nice. I’ve been giving $10 bills to cashiers who will “show me their smile”. Not one has refused the offer so far.  

[EricJ]

47 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

No way of knowing that. It is getting hotter too, maybe that’s the cause?

Nah, it's pretty obvious.   The uptrend started here about five weeks ago.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by EricJ

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Nah, it's pretty obvious.   The uptrend started here about five weeks ago.

 

 

Huh, La Paz county has the lowest rate and that’s where I was.

Maybe they got something there...

[Guest]

What’s going on in countries like India and Brazil might suggest that this is not a hoax and shouldn’t be taken lightly.

Clarence

[ilovecornfields]

9 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

What’s going on in countries like India and Brazil might suggest that this is not a hoax and shouldn’t be taken lightly.

Clarence

Fake news. All those dead bodies are really just actors being paid to brainwash you into actually caring for someone other than yourself and being a responsible member of society. Don’t fall for it. Just eat your steak. It’s to die for. Let’s keep spreading the disease and seeing how many more mutations we can get!

It’s totally lost on me how the people who claim to want a return to “normalcy” are EXACTLY the ones keeping us from getting there because of their reckless behavior. Every time we make progress, they act like imbeciles and almost guarantee that we’ll take a huge step back.

Great job guys. We already have variants here that the vaccines are less effective against, so why don’t you just go gather in large groups with other unvaccinated super spreaders, cause the next wave to come and then complain about how the government wants to pass all these rules to keep you from exercising your right to infect and kill others.

Where else did we just read a thread about someone doing something incredibly stupid and then blaming the government for picking on her? I have no respect for those who blame others for the consequences of their own stupid choices. 

[Marauder]

I'm not sure what all of this complaining is about. I just got my second Moderna shot and I feel fine.

My Dad never spoke about WWII much. But I got to think that sitting behind a mask is a hell a lot of less inconvenient than sitting in the Ardennes forest for 3 weeks with your top teeth shot out. Suck it up...

[MooneyMitch]

Masks !!  I’m truly looking forward to seeing your smile again ! 

[Guest]

We had a members of a local church busted for breaking rules on the size of their gathering.

These same people are anti abortion, anti euthanasia for the terminally ill because life is so precious, yet want the right to get together and infect the rest of us, go figure.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

7 hours ago, M20Doc said:

We had a members of a local church busted for breaking rules on the size of their gathering.

These same people are anti abortion, anti euthanasia for the terminally ill because life is so precious, yet want the right to get together and infect the rest of us, go figure.

Clarence

Interesting analogy.  I'm not an expert but my understanding is that the real covid-19 mortality rate is hard to know right now because the recording guidelines are designed to capture all covid-19 death data (no matter if causal) and then be adjusted accordingly. The down side of this is if you record a positive PCR test and die for any reason in the following weeks (or months depending on the state) you're death likely to be included in the covid-19 death stats. Even so the survival rates are high.  

Again, I am not an expert...but from the data I've seen, Abortion and Euthanasia seem to have a much higher death rate.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Shadrach

[aviatoreb]

Just now, Shadrach said:

Interesting analogy.  I'm not an expert but my understanding is that the real covid-19 mortality rate is hard to know right now because the recording guidelines are designed to capture all covid-19 death data (no matter if causal) and then be adjusted accordingly. The down side of this is if you record a positive PCR test and die for any reason in the following weeks (or months depending on the state) you're death likely to be included in the covid-19 death stats. Even so the survival rates are high.  

Again, I am not an expert...but from the data I've seen Abortion and Euthanasia seem to have a much higher death rate.

That is immediate mortality.  I wonder what the long term studies will show regarding changes in longevity.  Will there be heart damage for example in long haulers that will result in changes to their long term health?  Will people die of heart disease because of all this a decade earlier?  Time will tell.  Knock on wood and stay healthy friends.

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

That is immediate mortality.  I wonder what the long term studies will show regarding changes in longevity.  Will there be heart damage for example in long haulers that will result in changes to their long term health?  Will people die of heart disease because of all this a decade earlier?  Time will tell.  Knock on wood and stay healthy friends.

I don't think we've even decided on a definition for long hauler yet. To my mind, that is someone who had a severe case that is can't shake the disease.  To others, it includes folks that didn't necessarily get very sick but nevertheless have long term fatigue, depression and other issues.

It's an odd virus indeed.   To that end, I am probably the only person who will tell you they had a positive side effect correlating with a Covid-19 infection.  I suffer from mild to moderate plaque psoriasis.  My psoriasis symptoms abated almost completely while I was in quarantine in January and I was completely free of psoriasis symptoms up until a few weeks ago.  I thought/hoped that perhaps the vitamin D I was taking during my "recovery" may have been the reason for the clearing, but sadly that does not seem to be the case.  I would happily relive my covid-19 experience every three months if it meant never having to manage psoriasis again.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Shadrach

[aviatoreb]

12 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I don't think we've even decided on a definition for long hauler yet. To my mind that is someone who had a severe case that is can't shake the disease.  To others it includes folks that didn't necessarily get very sick but nevertheless have long term fatigue, depression and other issues.

It's an odd virus indeed.   To that end, I am probably the only person who will tell you they had a positive side effect correlating with a Covid-19 infection.  I suffer from mild to moderate plaque psoriasis.  My psoriasis symptoms abated almost completely while I was in quarantine in January and I was completely free of psoriasis symptoms up until a few weeks ago.  I thought/hoped that perhaps the vitamin D I was taking during my "recovery" may have been the reason for the clearing, but sadly that does not seem to be the case.  I would happily relive my covid-19 experience every three months if it meant never having to manage psoriasis again.

 

I'm no doctor, so I couldn't begin to add to the discussion of different variants of long haul - but as you described at least two variants, surely they will be categorized and named as docs seem to do, rightly since each may well require a different treatment and approach to math different diagnosis.

Hey - that's exciting about your psoriasis - well if it wasn't the vitamin D - still there is hope - maybe SOMETHING else you were doing during that period - I am sure you are on it - but wow maybe you can try and recreate every little detail in isolation to try and lick this other annoying issue?

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

I'm no doctor, so I couldn't begin to add to the discussion of different variants of long haul - but as you described at least two variants, surely they will be categorized and named as docs seem to do, rightly since each may well require a different treatment and approach to math different diagnosis.

Hey - that's exciting about your psoriasis - well if it wasn't the vitamin D - still there is hope - maybe SOMETHING else you were doing during that period - I am sure you are on it - but wow maybe you can try and recreate every little detail in isolation to try and lick this other annoying issue?

I have thought about it a lot. The only other variable is the Vitamin D3 brand.  Perhaps what I have been taking lately is of lower quality.  I am hopeful but realistic.  The only symptom of covid-19 that was really bothersome for me was losing my sense of taste/smell and the occasional, very odd phantom cigarette smoke smell that would fill my nose randomly and inexplicably. It was so intense that I initially had an odd sort of olfactory nostalgia for my college years. The nostalgia was short lived and then it was just gross...

Edited April 26, 2021 by Shadrach

[aviatoreb]

Just now, Shadrach said:

I have thought about it a lot. The only other variable is the Vitamin D3 brand.  Perhaps what I have been taking lately is of lower quality.  I am hopeful but realistic.  The only symptom of covid-19 that was really bothersome for me was losing my sense of taste/smell and the occasional, very odd phantom cigarette smoke smell that would fill my nose randomly and inexplicably. It was so intense that I initially had an odd sort of olfactory nostalgia for my college years. The nostalgia was short lived and then it was just gross...

Weird.  Well I hope this lead gives success.

[jaylw314]

21 hours ago, MikeOH said:

 

Hmm, lacking actual supporting data makes "seems like a reasonable proxy" not a whole lot different from "educated guess."

Almost up there with "follow the science."

I was referring to the fact that "educated guess" reduces the estimation of a epidemiologist to be equivalent to that of, say, an astrologist.  Since neither can be certain, and both have had some kind of "education," by argument, the epidemiologist's guess must hold no more weight than the astrologist's.

While we start from the belief that all opinions hold equal weight in general, on specific subjects others may be far more or less qualified than you or I to produce opinions.  I would argue that the opinions of epidemiologists hold far more weight than others on this topic.

[Shadrach]

21 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

In fact, it's impossible to know anything.  In fact, facts don't exist.

I'm not stating fact but more observation. Many of the people on this board and elsewhere point to correlations that support their POV and ignore correlations that do not.  Many people on this board and elsewhere act as though the medical community is a monolith in lock step agreement about the actions that are being taken and anyone who dares to question those actions is often maligned as anti-data, anti-science or anti-social.  

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I was referring to the fact that "educated guess" reduces the estimation of a epidemiologist to be equivalent to that of, say, an astrologist.  Since neither can be certain, and both have had some kind of "education," by argument, the epidemiologist's guess must hold no more weight than the astrologist's.

While we start from the belief that all opinions hold equal weight in general, on specific subjects others may be far more or less qualified than you or I to produce opinions.  I would argue that the opinions of epidemiologists hold far more weight than others on this topic.

All epidemiologists agree?

Edited April 27, 2021 by Shadrach

[ilovecornfields]

12 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

All epidemiologists agree?

This one does. And so do my epidemiology friends from grad school. 
 

If 99 out of 100 is experts agree on something some will see that as a “controversy” and not know what to think, while others will realize that the 99 are statistically much more likely to be right. 
 

The people that don’t like what the 99 are saying will find the one who disagrees and make a huge fuss over the controversy, give him interviews, make YouTube videos and then say “See! Even the other experts can’t agree.”

I believe you will have a hard time finding a practicing epidemiologist with a degree in the field that tells you that a bunch of unmasked (most likely) unvaccinated people from different places sharing a room together eating and drinking is a smart idea right now. If you do, it’s still not a “controversy” — they are the outlier. 
 

But what do I know? I only spent half my life in public health and medicine so I’m sure everyone else knows more about this than I do.