Any thoughts on

[KSMooniac]

Thanks for posting, Mike.  I've been a reader/consumer of your columns and webinars since becoming an owner almost 5 years ago and appreciate your effort to help all of us "out here" even if we are not your direct customers.  I think in this thread there is a slight case of "frequently wrong, but never in doubt!" going on.

[smccray]

+1 on the welcome!  We're lucky to have you available to answer questions.  I actually have a half written email to you that came out of your webinar on owner produced parts.

To the doubters- I would recommend listening to Mike's webinar on annuals.  You get a better understanding of his approach and it seems very reasonable to me.

[carusoam]

Mike,

Thanks for joining us here.  We have a semi-lively discussion going on.  

Maybe you can help us separate fact from opinion from straight fiction?

It seems the original poster was interested in the Savvy maintenance management program for his mooney.  The discussion seems to have strayed a bit.  

I would be interested in knowing what the program is about and how it relates to private ownership of a mooney.

As for personal disagreement or dissent, there is a PM function to take those discussions off line.  Not many people are interested long-term in mud slinging.  

Mud slinging has not helped the Mooney community or GA a whole lot.

Again, welcome to MooneySpace.

 

Best regards,

Anthony

[John Pleisse]

Mike thanks for joining. It's always great to hear it directly from the source.

1) What is your public position operating Lycoming 4 cylinder enginers LOP? What is your opinion of Lycoming's lag in providing data given the tsunami of LOP op's? Given major overhaul shops won't  warranty LOP Lyc 4-banger ops, where would prospective operators get sound data and operating procedures?

2) CHT temps maximums in Avweb paper #46 were subsequently contradicted by one of your colleagues. Where did you finally arrive with your max CHT suggestions? Is there another Avweb article?

3) Given you provide type specific advice to C, B and Cirrus, do you feel type specific maintanence is the best approach? Would expand your repetoire to include broad based Mooney Service?

Thanks in advance for your answers. Thanks for joining in!!

[Ned Gravel]

Mike:

Glad you are here.  You have much wisdom and experience to offer.

[jshill]

All,

I posted the original question

My interest as to others experience with Savvy Mx was purely selfish. I'm looking to get back into ownership that I exited 5 years ago - in no small part because of on-going maintenance issues with my '81 J model.

But now I'm looking at aircraft that cost substantially more to purchase and maintain (Bravo?)

My time is limited.  I'm not a mechanic and I'm not fond of the 'tinkering' side of ownership . I assume that I'm the type of owner that Mike Busch has in mind - and I welcome expert advice/assistance.The cost seems trivial.

There's a good review in Aviation Consumer that I've linked below.

http://www.aviationconsumer.com/issues/39_1/maintenancematters/5861-1.html

(Oh yeah - the saying when I was on my surgical rotation was "seldom wrong - never in doubt")

Cheers

Jeff Hill

KFCM

 

[Shadrach]

I've heard that saying, but it was "Seldom right, but never in doubt"...

[tony]

Welcome.  Your approach to maintainance is right on the money.  I enjoy listening to your webcasts.

[kgbpost]

Welcome Mike,

I've found your articles to be very informative and they have played an important role in the refinement of my maintenance program. Your articles about aviation oil grades and making metal were both enlightening for me and very well done. Thanks for bringing your expertise to this forum. Brian 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: Mike_Busch

Someone just pointed me to this thread. I see my name being taken in vain, and lots of criticism posted by folks who have never met or spoken to me and haven't a clue what I do. So I thought I'd make this post and engage any of you who have a bone to pick with me or don't care for my approach to maintenance (which is modeled after the approach used by the airlines and military and high-end bizjets, and based on the very best scientific research available into maintenance best practices) to engage me in discussion about these things rather than just throwing flames.

FYI, I have not done my weekend seminar since the summer of 2010, as I'm just too busy managing actual maintenance of actual airplanes. My firm now manages the maintenance of 7% of the US fleet of Cirrus aircraft, and we've been growing 5% per month. We also manage the maintenance of a lot of Cessna singles and twins, quite a few Beech Bonanzas and Barons, and a handful of Mooneys. I have more than 20 years experience as a tech rep for the Cessna Pilots Association, helping thousands of Cessna owners deal with the thorniest mechanical problems that had their local mechanics stumped. Anyone who thinks that I'm a theoretician who doesn't deal with real-world issues on real-world airplanes is simply misinformed.

I'm here. Fire away!

[fantom]

Quote: Mike_Busch

I'm here. Fire away!

[jetdriven]

Mike: glad you are here.  Following the information given by you and John Deakin really changed my attitude about airplanes. When we decided to buy one, my 1500 hours in GA pistons was turned uspide down when I ran across your information.  It was like discovering the earth was round.

 

Can you address some of these comments made on this board?

"fuel is cheaper than engines"

RE: Lycoming rep stops by the shop       "So I decided to finish him off and tell him we are running 30 LOP and burning 8-8.5 GPH. ....   He informs me I am "burning my engine up", to which I reply, how is a 330 CHT burning anything up. At 75 LOP i am worried about enought CHT, its at 280. He says this is cooling "with air, and the extra oxygen and chemicals in the metallurgy, causes the cylinders to burn up." ........ He immediately inspects my cylinders for "burning" as the gray paint turns dark at 500 F.  All are nice gray.  He is quiet. He asks, how many hours we have ran it this way, (150 hours, enough fuel savings to buy an 1100$ overhauled cylinder already).  Nevermind the oil consumption is down to a quart in 12-15 hours or more vs. the quart every 5 hours when we bought it, clean oil analysis, no carbon or trash in the filter, and 75 hours on spark plugs that required no cleaning.  The engine tone is a little different but I think the engine is happy running this way.  perhaps I am crazt, betting 8K worth of angle-valve cylinders on it, but you, know what, I will take that bet."

"Flying costs money, there are no easy ways around good maintanence. I add oil and gas and turn the key."

"I went to an FAA Safety Seminar recently about owner-performed maintenance, and it surprised me how hands-off many pilots are about maintenance, when you (not your mechanic) is the one that is responsible for airworthiness of your plane.  Also, when it takes, oh, an hour to change the oil, how many people pay between $250-500 for this service because they like to get the mechanic to "take a look around" while he is changing the oil"

"When someone publicly touts running their engines and cylinders 900 past TBO on one hand and wants to offer ways to save a buck or two on the other...I see red flags. Sure, he can make prudent decisions about his own engines, but publicly purporting the notion sends the wrong message to people."

 

"Does the failure of the part cause a hazard or a dispatch reliability problem? Is there an AD or a FAR 23 mandate for it to be replaced on a schedule?  If not, RUN TILL FAILURE."

 

"Supported by 13 years and 900 hours of flawless service. And an aircraft that will sell for what it is worth. Most people don't overspend and most don't need a seminar to learn how to cut corners. Most people understand want tbo is, or implies."

"There is such a thing as infant mortality on parts, particularly overhauled parts and you create risk every time you replace a part - why do that unnecessarily? (our overhauled fuel pump, for instance, lasted about 3 hrs past install.  our brand new alternator failed on the plane's first long cross country flight because the trusted mooney mechanic who replaced it - and charged us an insane 5 hrs labor for his work - didn't tighten the nuts and there was arcing)."

"I am not a fan of Busch...he has gaps in his resume, his education claims seem odd and he seems to downplay his time in GA thru the 80's where he amassed some of his experience (unless he did something else for 13 years). He knows what he is talking about and he is another guy trying to eeke a buck out of GA, a tough thing to do. Would I take his course? Probably...if I had a spare weekend and wanted to pay $500. I have a different approach and it works."

 

[Jeff_S]

Quote: jetdriven

Mike: glad you are here.  Following the information given by you and John Deakin really changed my attitude about airplanes. When we decided to buy one, my 1500 hours in GA pistons was turned uspide down when I ran across your information.  It was like discovering the earth was round.

 

Can you address some of these comments made on this board?

"fuel is cheaper than engines"

"Flying costs money, there are no easy ways around good maintanence. I add oil and gas and turn the key."

"I went to an FAA Safety Seminar recently about owner-performed maintenance, and it surprised me how hands-off many pilots are about maintenance, when you (not your mechanic) is the one that is responsible for airworthiness of your plane.  Also, when it takes, oh, an hour to change the oil, how many people pay between $250-500 for this service because they like to get the mechanic to "take a look around" while he is changing the oil"

"When someone publicly touts running their engines and cylinders 900 past TBO on one hand and wants to offer ways to save a buck or two on the other...I see red flags. Sure, he can make prudent decisions about his own engines, but publicly purporting the notion sends the wrong message to people."

 

"Does the failure of the part cause a hazard or a dispatch reliability problem? Is there an AD or a FAR 23 mandate for it to be replaced on a schedule?  If not, RUN TILL FAILURE."

 

"Supported by 13 years and 900 hours of flawless service. And an aircraft that will sell for what it is worth. Most people don't overspend and most don't need a seminar to learn how to cut corners. Most people understand want tbo is, or implies."

"There is such a thing as infant mortality on parts, particularly overhauled parts and you create risk every time you replace a part - why do that unnecessarily? (our overhauled fuel pump, for instance, lasted about 3 hrs past install.  our brand new alternator failed on the plane's first long cross country flight because the trusted mooney mechanic who replaced it - and charged us an insane 5 hrs labor for his work - didn't tighten the nuts and there was arcing)."

"I am not a fan of Busch...he has gaps in his resume, his education claims seem odd and he seems to downplay his time in GA thru the 80's where he amassed some of his experience (unless he did something else for 13 years). He knows what he is talking about and he is another guy trying to eeke a buck out of GA, a tough thing to do. Would I take his course? Probably...if I had a spare weekend and wanted to pay $500. I have a different approach and it works."