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Question on the Porsche Mooney (M20L)

231LV

By 231LV
in Modern Mooney Discussion

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231LV Rising Star

231LV

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I have a question. Recently, my son-in-law sent me a link  on Facebook Marketplace for a Porsche Mooney for sale up in Canada. The asking is $140,000k. I thought the Porsche Mooney has an orphaned engine? Porsche, as I understand it, gave up the Type certificate for the engine back in the 1990's and announced they would no longer supply engine parts. I realize ModWorks out of Florida owned the STC to replace the Porsche engine with a Continental in the M20L until they were destroyed by a hurricane. I am unaware of anyone else picking up the STC from ModWorks and consequently,  all the remaining M20L's were destroyed? In any event, I cannot understand how this airplane would be worth anything other than to scrap out for parts

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Aerodon Mentor

Aerodon

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Posted

Canada has an Owner Maintenance Category for orphaned airplanes.  Gives a lot of attitude for maintenance, but cannot be flown to the USA.  Hard to convert back to Normal Category.

My understanding is a lot of M20L's were converted either by the factory or Rocket Engineering?

 

Don

 

 

 

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Aerodon Mentor

Aerodon

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From another advert:

"In 2004, the aircraft was modified with a Mooney M20R Ovation STC conversion ($120K) and everything "firewall forward” was replaced brand new! A factory-new Continental IO-550 (280HP) engine replaced its original Porche PFM 3200 (217HP) engine while the aircraft's interior, avionics, and instrument panel were all updated. N147MP was also recently repainted with an Ovation scheme ($10K)!"

 

Aerodon

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rbridges Grand Master

rbridges

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20 minutes ago, Aerodon said:

From another advert:

"In 2004, the aircraft was modified with a Mooney M20R Ovation STC conversion ($120K) and everything "firewall forward” was replaced brand new! A factory-new Continental IO-550 (280HP) engine replaced its original Porche PFM 3200 (217HP) engine while the aircraft's interior, avionics, and instrument panel were all updated. N147MP was also recently repainted with an Ovation scheme ($10K)!"

 

Aerodon

well, there you go.  I've heard people complain about UL.  I wonder how the engine change impacts it.  

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Guest

Guest

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Posted (edited)

As far as I know this Mooney is still Porsche powered and strangely is not listed on the Owner Maintenance list in Canada.  The M18 and early M20/A models are.

Clarence

9D0CBD80-6432-4405-BDFC-EF28C0E5A4F3.jpeg

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
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...and not to forget the unicorn Liquid rocket.

exactly 5 of those M20L were converted by rocket engineering to a special and very rare variant of a Mooney rocket.  The usual mooney rocket is a M20K converted with a standard continental TSIO520NB.  A liquid rocket is a M20L that rocket engineering put a TSIOL550 - a liquid cooled 550.  There is a mostly closed cowl and a cooling pipe that runs the length and an outlet at the back of the plane.  It has 350hp and it also is reported to have gussets to strengthen the frame for higher speeds.  Since its all hearsay from where I sit what actual performance is, I have heard top speeds as high as 260TAS and mid 220's in the mid teens.  I also heard they are a bear to maintain.   But quite a find. 

There's some zingy lemonade from some tangy lemons.

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Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
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1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

...and not to forget the unicorn Liquid rocket.

exactly 5 of those M20L were converted by rocket engineering to a special and very rare variant of a Mooney rocket.  The usual mooney rocket is a M20K converted with a standard continental TSIO520NB.  A liquid rocket is a M20L that rocket engineering put a TSIOL550 - a liquid cooled 550.  There is a mostly closed cowl and a cooling pipe that runs the length and an outlet at the back of the plane.  It has 350hp and it also is reported to have gussets to strengthen the frame for higher speeds.  Since its all hearsay from where I sit what actual performance is, I have heard top speeds as high as 260TAS and mid 220's in the mid teens.  I also heard they are a bear to maintain.   But quite a find. 

There's one here, sometimes, based at my newest home field. @Rocket_Driver?

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Greg Ellis Mentor

Greg Ellis

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Posted

There is a guy based at Fort Worth Spinks where I am based that owns 2 Porsche M20L's.  Both still have the Porsche engine and have not been converted.  I have seen one of them up close when it was in for its annual at the shop I use at my airport.  Interesting airplane.  One is flown regularly and the other is basically used for parts.

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Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
Posted

So which is the rarest bird? Porsche-powered M20-L, or TSIOL-550-powered M20-L???

In this thread, I've heard of 3 of the former that I didn't know about, and a count of 5 Liquid Rockets that I knew there were "only a few" of . . . .

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LANCECASPER Grand Master

LANCECASPER

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, LevelWing said:

Here's a Liquid Rocket for sale:

https://www.usaaircraft.com/aircraft-for-sale/10/1988-mooney-m20l-liquid-rocket-price-reduced

812lbs useful load and a 90 gallon tank.

M20L had the same landing gear as the original 252, I doubt that the M20L Liquid Rocket advertised has 812 useful load - more likely somehwere in the 600's. (Later, early into the M20M the useful load went up with dual puck brakes, etc.) If the UL is in the 600's, with 90 gallons of fuel, it better be one skinny pilot.

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Also I'm not sure that the five liquid rockets were all M20L's. I think at least two of the five started out as M20M's.

That's interesting.

How's the reliability of that TSIOL550 I wonder?  I heard that the engine package came from some conversion offered by raam, so there might be at least some residual support for the engine setup http://www.ramaircraft.com/Engine-Pages/SM056C4-TSIOL-550A-Liquid-Cooled.htm

Wow - $102 for that liquid rocket - somebody should get that and go fly very fast.

Anyone here know the actual cruise speeds of that thing?

As for me - I am intrigues but not interested - I really like what I have, and the more standard and widely deployed tsio520nb that the regional shops here have lots of experience with, and also my tks, and also that I have already fixed mine up quite a bit - as they say - love the one yer with.

But I am intrigued - someone buy it and please take me for a ride!  I want a ride in it ... more than I want to own it...

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
Just now, LANCECASPER said:

After Porsche made the announcement to discontinue support and offer a buyout, the early M20L adopters hoarded parts (valve springs, cylinders, complete engines), so it's very possible that the ones ones still flying are being maintained with new old stock parts.

Since its orphaned - I wonder if some parts could be custom made or otherwise modified from car parts?

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LANCECASPER Grand Master

LANCECASPER

Posted
Posted
Just now, aviatoreb said:

That's interesting.

How's the reliability of that TSIOL550 I wonder?  I heard that the engine package came from some conversion offered by raam, so there might be at least some residual support for the engine setup http://www.ramaircraft.com/Engine-Pages/SM056C4-TSIOL-550A-Liquid-Cooled.htm

Wow - $102 for that liquid rocket - somebody should get that and go fly very fast.

Anyone here know the actual cruise speeds of that thing?

As for me - I am intrigues but not interested - I really like what I have, and the more standard and widely deployed tsio520nb that the regional shops here have lots of experience with, and also my tks, and also that I have already fixed mine up quite a bit - as they say - love the one yer with.

But I am intrigued - someone buy it and please take me for a ride!  I want a ride in it ... more than I want to own it...

It's been for sale off and on over 10 years

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Legend has it that the valve springs in a Porsche 911 engine were the same but didn't have the aviation stamp on them.

Right - I have heard similarly - what are the rules then - its orphaned now right - so user produced/ackquired parts are they allowed?  And goodness knows there are many car shops that know how to overhaul and maintain porche engines.

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
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1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

Legend has it that the valve springs in a Porsche 911 engine were the same but didn't have the aviation stamp on them.

I know - I have seen it before online - and I am thinking at one point it was sale out of North Carolina? Maybe someone bought it and flew it awhile?

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