Emergency Landing | Baggage Door Blow Off Mid Flight | Model K

[PT20J]

27 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I agree with you that its really hard to imagine how they can open in flight if fully latched shut, but we continue to see these incidents in cruise where the pilots swears it was shut and I believe them since a non-latched door usually opens up on the takeoff run or right after liftoff.

On locking the door - see step 5 below from the AFMS for the baggage door from SB 239-A - that's a pic of the required decal that's suppose to go on the baggage door.

Thanks, Paul, I missed the placard; I was just looking at the text. Of course, the placard is conveniently located on the inside of the baggage door, where to read it you either have to be in the baggage compartment or stick your head inside the opening and rotate your neck 180 degrees.  

BTW, I’m not doubting anyone who claims it was latched properly and still came open. I’ve been around long enough to have seen many things happen that don’t seem possible. 

I’ve learned to always either have the door fully opened or shut and latched. If it’s only halfway open, I bang my head on it coming down off the wing. If I close the door but leave the latch open, I skin my arm on the latch climbing up onto the wing. Pain and blood are great teachers, I have found.

Skip

[carusoam]

Some summary points...

1) Red Sky is an awesome pilot...

2) Red sky’s SIC is even more awesome...
 

3) Unlatched doors let the fun begin right at rotation... around 65kias or mias depending on what you are flying...

4) unlatched doors usually open just a couple of inches... at first...

5) An open door usually comes with quite a windstorm... with lots of paper flight plans moving in a circular fashion... aunty M and Dorothy  can be heard in your headset...
 

6) To lock the door or not lock the door... answer this for yourself...  lock it, go inside and open it... it all goes back together when you are done...  let me know how it works out... 

7) I stopped letting other people close doors... always open, or always closed and latched... never in between...

8) Nothing more rewarding than loading four people into the plane... and having SIC get out so you can go close the door... that day... you would pay extra for the second front door...

9) Flying a plane is a constant test of the human brain... expect the brain to try and let you down...

10) Fortunately... When the plane does something funny... expect the brain to really come through fo you...

11) Next steps... Take the check and go shopping, or swap the old tail for a different tail, see what’s available at AAA..?

Way to go Red Sky!

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

I missed this thread until now.  Holy smokes, glad everyone is okay.

I carry my towbar in the baggage compartment, so whenever I pull the plane out of the hangar, I have to put it back before getting in, so I've gotten in the routine of locking the door when I do that.

[Ibra]

10 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I agree if he door does open in flight it would be irritating but not a great concern.

If bag door opens at 170kts way outside the white arc it is a big concern according to engineers, if gear/flap are deployed at 170kts the aircraft is not airworthy and need inspection & sing-off before it flies again on next flight, the same for the doors, in the other hand a door that opens inside white arc on takeoff/landing speeds may cause some distraction and some can close it by hand while flying, this can be considered as non-event and not worth a line in the aircraft tech logs and papers 

I would wait for an engineer/inspector damage report to see if this door opening was a real concern, it is easy to understand an inspection/NDT report from a pilot perspective by looking at the price of the repair bill 

Here is what happens when flap/gear overspeed/stress go as non-event (bit of stretch comparing training PA28s cycle fatigue to the strength of a private personal Mooney, but given that Mooneys go 80kts faster, one should not assume they are forgiving on that aspect):

https://www.flyingmag.com/ntsb-issues-report-daytona-beach-piper/?fbclid=IwAR3TuEu_N7R-9dGiAWmob537fGMbFofUTZdzeC1_NkeQ7N80Rg87V98il74

Edited June 3, 2020 by Ibra

[PT20J]

From Bob Kromer:

Here are some thoughts.

1. I was the one who did factory flight testing investigating what happens when a baggage door is left unlatched prior to flight.  The test airplane was an M20K.  I had a mechanical system installed where I could unlatch (from the shut position) the baggage door from the pilot’s seat during any phase of flight.  We discovered absolutely no adverse handling qualities or aerodynamic issues when the door is left unlatched and should open in flight.  Interestingly, several times when the door was unlatched from the inside it just stayed in position.  But if a baggage door is left shut but unlatched and does come open during flight, it most likely will open at rotation during takeoff.  The change in angle of attack during rotation allows the airflow in the vicinity of the baggage door to lift it upward.  It’s a noisy distraction when it opens, but if ignored it is easy to return for a normal landing.  There were no adverse handling qualities encountered in any of the phases of flight we tested where we opened to door, including takeoff, climb and cruise.  The key thing we took away from our testing was if someone doesn’t latch the baggage door on preflight, it almost always opened very early in the flight.  Usually during rotation or initial climb.  And it was a non-event. 
2. Now, having the baggage door depart the airplane is another matter.  How could this happen, especially at lower takeoff and initial climb speeds?  I am aware of only one other situation where the baggage door actually departed the airplane when it opened.  I believe it was for an M20K that we repaired at the factory.  But this door came open during a high speed descent.  When it opened, the heavy air loads at 160KIAS ripped the door from the fuselage and it struck the vertical tail.  As it flew past, the baggage door struck the vertical fin and cut the skin, but with no further structural damage.  The airplane came to us at the factory and we repaired both the tail and the baggage door/fuselage.  We did a thorough inspection of the baggage door and cabin structure before and after the repair and found absolutely no issues that would cause a properly latched door on this airplane to come open.  Incidentally, the owner later admitted that someone was retrieving luggage from inside the airplane during descent when the door came open.  We think somehow that inadvertently unlatched the door from the inside, causing it to open during the high speed descent. 
3. So how could a baggage door on the airplane shown below actually come off at such a low speed and hit the tail?  I don’t know, the air loads at takeoff and initial climb speeds are not that great.  Was the baggage door hinge broken or worn out?  Did the pilot fly really fast in a hurry to return to the airport?    A normal baggage door, even if it opens, just doesn’t depart the airplane this easy.

I’m happy it turned out okay. 

Bob  

 

[tmo]

If the last point (3) is meant for what happened with G-OSUS then the door opened in cruise - looks like a little above 120kias or so (3:51 in the first video). I know we're talking Mooney, but am not sure if it still qualifies for "such a low speed".

[Guest]

I suspect that this incident started with failed hinge eyelets, the door twisted under air load enough for the still engaged pins to be released from the frame.  
 

Clarence

[flyboy0681]

Let me be the dissenter here for a moment and just throw this out. Acting simply as the devils advocate here, was it the correct decision to set her down immediately, regardless of the facility or condition of it? Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to access the flight characteristics, and if the aircraft was responding fairly well, set course for an airport that had a long,  wide runway and emergency services? The way he was bouncing around on landing I was sure he was going to bend the prop as well as other metal.

Just thinking aloud and would like to hear from others on this different approach, no pun intended.

[carusoam]

things for a devil’s advocate to consider...
 

When the airplane is in an unknown condition...

Similar to flying with a load of ice...

Change as few things as possible, shallow changes, get on the ground...

Anything that is bent...  Can become broken...

Where the door is resting, can get worse...

If the tail stalls... the plane becomes a lawn dart.

Even Sully put the injured plane down, nearly straight ahead...
 

How many choices do you get to make under these conditions? (Many)

One wrong move, and your career as a test pilot comes to an early end...

Do what ever you can to avoid becoming a test pilot.... if you somehow become a test pilot... minimize the number of tests per flight...

You don’t want to find the killer variable, if you don’t have to...

Simple changes like slowing down or adding flaps could end disastrously...  flaps will change the airflow around the tail...

resist taking on additional chances, resist making unnecessary changes...

Dang... those Mooneys are built extra strong...

PP thoughts only, not a test pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooney in Oz]

31 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to access the flight characteristics, and if the aircraft was responding fairly well, set course for an airport that had a long,  wide runway and emergency services?

We immediately lost lift and declared an emergency with ATC who had us on a basic service, lucky we were within distance of a 770ft grass / gravel strip between some solar panel farms. Other than the damage to the elevator and hatch looks like we were extremely lucky to walk away unharmed............With the debris on the wing and the new hole in the fuselage I could feel the extra drag (you can see me fighting the yoke with two hands in the video) the AC wanted to roll right and pitch nose down, it was a challenge to keep her level

It reads to me like he did assess the flight characteristics and acted appropriately.  

[Ragsf15e]

17 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Let me be the dissenter here for a moment and just throw this out. Acting simply as the devils advocate here, was it the correct decision to set her down immediately, regardless of the facility or condition of it? Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to access the flight characteristics, and if the aircraft was responding fairly well, set course for an airport that had a long,  wide runway and emergency services? The way he was bouncing around on landing I was sure he was going to bend the prop as well as other metal.

Just thinking aloud and would like to hear from others on this different approach, no pun intended.

Depends.  None of us felt the controls.  Handling was clearly compromised to some extent, but how much?  Only RedSky knows what it really felt like.  With altitude and time, your approach may be prudent.  However, with a missing door and clear structural damage, my last worry would be further damage to the airplane (“bent prop”).  At this point, that’s not my concern, its his insurance companies problem.

In my USAF fighter and trainer time we planned for structural damage.  Checklist called for a controllability check slowing and configuring at a high altitude.  Slow either to approach speed or full control deflection, then stay above that airspeed.  Then you decide if landing is possible.  If not, bail out.  It’s that last part that gets complicated in a Mooney... we don’t have a way to bail out if the controllability check goes bad.  I’m not sure doing it is all that helpful since there’s no other option than landing anyway.  
 

Now a long, wide runway with crash crew ready would be nice, and it’s definitely a consideration, but the outcome is really tough to second guess.  If he got it down and collapsed the gear, I’d still say he did fine.  If he tumbled off the runway and was trapped inside, I’d guess waiting for a better place to land would be good.  Seems like he chose an acceptable place.

How much would that door have to have shifted to jam in the elevator hinge and make elevator control impossible?

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I suspect that this incident started with failed hinge eyelets, the door twisted under air load enough for the still engaged pins to be released from the frame.  
 

Clarence

After going over the pics again, I'm thinking the same.   The pins are still out on the door, the front half of the hinge eyelets are missing on the airplane but the bent hinge rod is still there.   I'm wondering if a fatigue failure of the sheet metal around the hinge let the leading edge of the hinge area lift enough to get air under it.

A decades-old airframe may not fail the same way a new one does under factory testing.

[flyboy0681]

6 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Depends.  None of us felt the controls.  Handling was clearly compromised to some extent, but how much?  Only RedSky knows what it really felt like.  With altitude and time, your approach may be prudent.  However, with a missing door and clear structural damage, my last worry would be further damage to the airplane (“bent prop”).  At this point, that’s not my concern, its his insurance companies problem.

In my USAF fighter and trainer time we planned for structural damage.  Checklist called for a controllability check slowing and configuring at a high altitude.  Slow either to approach speed or full control deflection, then stay above that airspeed.  Then you decide if landing is possible.  If not, bail out.  It’s that last part that gets complicated in a Mooney... we don’t have a way to bail out if the controllability check goes bad.  I’m not sure doing it is all that helpful since there’s no other option than landing anyway.  
 

Now a long, wide runway with crash crew ready would be nice, and it’s definitely a consideration, but the outcome is really tough to second guess.  If he got it down and collapsed the gear, I’d still say he did fine.  If he tumbled off the runway and was trapped inside, I’d guess waiting for a better place to land would be good.  Seems like he chose an acceptable place.

How much would that door have to have shifted to jam in the elevator hinge and make elevator control impossible?

Your response is what I was curious about, what is the SOP for the Air Force and air carriers under similar circumstances. My post wasn't meant to be critical (and hope it didn't come across that way) because any landing you can walked away from is a good one, but if things were done on a methodical basis instead of adrenaline, what would the situation have looked like.

One of my concerns for that remote field would be be trapped inside versus the full emergency services available at a large facility.

[Ibra]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

Acting simply as the devils advocate here, was it the correct decision to set her down immediately?

Fair point, but precautionary landing in airport or even a field to inspect aircraft (or any other reasons: risk of VFR in IMC, risk of IFR bellow MSA, running out of fuel...) with power available should be a non-event even on our Mooneys with no emergency services?

One still have to inspect ground state & wind direction himself by overflying low before doing a pattern but I would skip some of that if tail/fuselage is about to come off (you only know this from control feeling and airframe vibrations) and with bag door (think why we hate ice) on the elevator the stall recovery & stick forces are no longer the same

Even landing gear up and bent prop in grass landing has better outcome for crew than losing control or structural failures, sorry for the aircraft it belongs to insurers since that bag door has come off while it was airborne (there was no extra landing damage anyway?) 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Ibra

[Ragsf15e]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

Your response is what I was curious about, what is the SOP for the Air Force and air carriers under similar circumstances. My post wasn't meant to be critical (and hope it didn't come across that way) because any landing you can walked away from is a good one, but if things were done on a methodical basis instead of adrenaline, what would the situation have looked like.

One of my concerns for that remote field would be be trapped inside versus the full emergency services available at a large facility.

I think my USAF experience isn’t the best model for this because being able to bail out right down to the landing gives you some “room to maneuver”.  Like flying to a longer field with crash crews.  If the airplane becomes uncontrollable on the way there?  No problem, eject.  Or doing a controllability check? If the airplane goes out of control, eject.

In general, I think the methodical approach you’re talking about is highly desirable.  However, I also don’t know how hard he was having to pull or roll.  Just to circle down to the field.  I guess my thought is that he definitely had that field made, unknown structural damage, and difficulty maintaining control (unusual forces).  I think you might not want to try flying far or for long in that condition.
 

I also think structural damage isn’t necessarily fixed.  It could get worse.  What if he hit some turbulence and the door riding on his elevator Shifted and jammed it? 
 

All in all, if he had flown successfully and methodically to a bigger field and gone over little ones, we’d be saying great job.  But I think landing soonest has some merit as well.

[Ross Taylor]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

How much would that door have to have shifted to jam in the elevator hinge and make elevator control impossible?

Exactly this.  Missing the door itself wouldn't be a big deal.  And damage caused by the door striking, and then leaving, the tail assembly (wherever it hit) probably wouldn't get worse.  But looking back and seeing the door wrapped around the horn would make me want to move the elevator as little as possible, lest it shift and wedge further and cause more restriction on input response.  You don't know when your situation might get much worse.  In this situation, I'd also be happy to be on the ground post haste.

[Ibra]

2 hours ago, tmo said:

If the last point (3) is meant for what happened with G-OSUS then the door opened in cruise - looks like a little above 120kias or so (3:51 in the first video). I know we're talking Mooney, but am not sure if it still qualifies for "such a low speed".

I think this occurrence at 120ias is probably worse than the 160ias as the bag door “magically” got stuck in the tail with a high risk of separating again and taking bits of the tail, who would have imagined that bag door will stay attached to the aircraft? what would have happened if as one pass the threshold at 50ft and that bag separates from the tail causing severe pitch up/down? 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Ibra

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I suspect that this incident started with failed hinge eyelets, the door twisted under air load enough for the still engaged pins to be released from the frame.  
 

Clarence

The theory doesn’t account for the missing hitch pin to hold down the emergency release handle.  That handle is clearly tripped.  It will release the door pins when pulled.  

[kortopates]

13 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

The theory doesn’t account for the missing hitch pin to hold down the emergency release handle.  That handle is clearly tripped.  It will release the door pins when pulled.  

True, but the wire attached to the hitch pin could have got caught and pulled during the door separation event or when it when the door was attached to the elevator horn. I don't think we can be certain its the cause of the door opening but certainly possible if the cover wasn't in place.

[jetdriven]

Something would have to rip the cover off and then snag the lanyard to pull the hitch pin.  That’s a lot of stuff in sequence.  
oh actually look at the photo again. The hitch pin is installed in the shaft. But the handle is tripped.  It looks like the hitch pin was UNDER the handle.  The handle couldn’t even be in the proper stowed position. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

The theory doesn’t account for the missing hitch pin to hold down the emergency release handle.  That handle is clearly tripped.  It will release the door pins when pulled.  

Yes the lock pin is released and the handle is raised somewhat, but the latch pin in the picture is still extended.

Clarence

[Ibra]

9 hours ago, jetdriven said:

That handle is clearly tripped.  It will release the door pins when pulled.  

It could happen when bags move inside while on the ground or when flying,

Not a story about bag door handle but I remember the M20J gear emergency extension handle got pulled as I loaded (read throw) few bags in the beak seat and gear failed to retract after takeoff, no drama just took me 90min of flying with gear down while observing ground speed & fuel flow before I start to read the AFM/POH for gear troubleshooting issues and fixes (nothing about that handle was listed in the red section of my paper checklist)

Edited June 4, 2020 by Ibra

[Diesel 10]

I echo all the congrats to @RedSkyFlyer and his wife for handling this emergency so well.

I posted the following in the FB Mooney Pilots Group but I thought it might be useful to add it to this discussion.  I'm glad to see this important topic discussed in detail here.

A few years ago, I had the baggage door on my M20J pop open on departure (I recall ~300-500ft AGL). I agree that the plane keeps flying but it gets your attention. There was a loud bang and we had papers flying around the cabin etc. It took me a few seconds to get comfortable we could still climb (My PPL instructor's words "Fly the plane" kept repeating in my head ). If I'd been in the situation described here and the door was lodged on the horizontal stab, I would certainly treat it as an emergency. We flew the pattern and landed without event.  The aircraft performance seemed unaffected (at least as far as pattern flying goes) but there was body work damage to both the fuselage and the door (the restraining arm separated). Afterwards I did an NTSB search out of curiosity whether Mooney baggage doors opening caused accidents. To my surprise there were 7 accidents that made it into NTSB database between 1980 and 2014. 3 of them had fatalities. A Mooney baggage door opening in flight should be manageable but its a serious event.  Obviously @RedSkyFlyer incident was much more serious.

How did my event happen?  I'm not 100% sure why it happened but I have done some things differently since then (~5 yrs ago) and it has never happened again. At that point I did not ever lock the baggage door. I mistakenly believed that I would not be able to use it as an emergency exit if it was locked. I would also note that the POH was ambiguous on whether it should be locked or not. I was flying with my instructor the day the door popped open. He put something in the baggage compartment and closed the door after I had already gotten in the left seat. So I know it wasn't locked but I don't know for sure if it was closed properly. We both agreed afterwards that we would always 1. lock the door and 2. make positive confirmation that the door is closed and locked before getting in the plane. Fortunately I haven't had any issues since then. I also got the Medco locks installed a year ago when I had the plane painted.  They have also been fine and certainly feel more secure than the original locks.

[eman1200]

you didn't use a checklist.

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I'm KIDDING, chill!

 

nice job!  I think I would have been much more concerned with that PIO that at that point you couldn't do too much about.  just along for the ride waiting to see what happens.

[eman1200]

On 6/2/2020 at 1:04 PM, kortopates said:

Correct. The inside emergency latch was introduced in the J & K models and the last update was issued in '88 with wording changes in '89. There are no more recent ones that I can see. There were some retrofit suggestions for earlier models like the F published in MAPA years ago which I believe are the basis for F mod discussed above - but these didn't come from the factory. 

With the last SB M20-239A, the AFMS calls for locking the baggage door to secure it in J's and K's.

my '75 F has one.  I don't recall seeing anything in the logs but I also don't have the logs memorized.