1977 J panel upgrades

[Marauder]

Seriously dude, don't you see that your statement above applies much more to you than anyone else who's posted here?

Bro - your timing was impeccable. I was writing my reply to state the same thing.

I really like to know what Aspen did to him. Tell him that he couldn’t buy one of their units for manufacturing costs?


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[Eight8Victor]

11 hours ago, rbridges said:

 I know opinions vary, but I'd keep the stormscope until it doesn't work.  I have a wx-1000, and I prefer having it in conjunction with ads-b weather.

Yes, the stormscope and adsb wx together will give you much more confidence than just one or the other. There is a guy who repairs the stormscopes. 

[Bob_Belville]

13 hours ago, rbridges said:

 I know opinions vary, but I'd keep the stormscope until it doesn't work.  I have a wx-1000, and I prefer having it in conjunction with ads-b weather.

+1 for the WX900. Even if it needs repairs it is worth keeping for summertime IFR flying. Nothing short of on board radar gives you the real time info that a Stormscope does. 

[PTK]

 

On 1/2/2020 at 12:04 AM, Marauder said:

As an educated consumer, please read the...

I have and I do. Getting back to the new E5 which is what this was about, what are the problems with that? RSM issues which Aspen denied forcing their poor customer to pay more money and now multiple units blanking out in flight? And you preaching redundancy don’t see an issue with that? In a dual G5 setup if, in the remotely unlikely possibility, one goes the other steps in. When, in the highly likely chance, an E5 blanks out there’s nothing. I ask you: is redundancy good or isn’t it? Make up your mind!

[Yetti]

[Marauder]

Hey! Wait until he decides Dynon is a piece of crap. You’ll get your time in the cat fight. Meow!


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[dzeleski]

Edited January 2, 2020 by dzeleski

[dzeleski]

Ill hang on to the WX-900 for now, im guessing I dont entirely get its value because I have not flown in actual yet

Gonna start making some calls and figure out pricing on these options, thank you all for the help. Ill post back once I start ordering things.

[Oldguy]

Just now, dzeleski said:

Ill hang on to the WX-900 for now, im guessing I dont entirely get its value because I have not flown in actual yet

Gonna start making some calls and figure out pricing on these options, thank you all for the help. Ill post back once I start ordering things.

Stormscope can be handy regardless of where it displays in IMC. You really will want to know what is out there when you cannot see beyond the end of the nose.

 

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 

Hey! Wait until he decides Dynon is a piece of crap. You’ll get your time in the cat fight. Meow!


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The best I can tell Dynon is a bit more open and accepting of other products out there and since it is less expensive and more integrated, I can always throw that sand.    The Dynon has connections to Garmin and Trig built in.

I am still fuzzy on the legality of it all since I think the regs have not kept up with the times.

Here is a good one.

Wifi connector that is plugged into the USB.   Does it have to be certified/PMA because it is user removable without tools?

[Marauder]

Ill hang on to the WX-900 for now, im guessing I dont entirely get its value because I have not flown in actual yet
Gonna start making some calls and figure out pricing on these options, thank you all for the help. Ill post back once I start ordering things.

The spherics detectors really help on summer days when build ups are occurring. With the lag time of FIS-B, you want something more real time to understand the developments. Radar would be perfect, but the small weather radar they stuck on Mooneys never worked well.

It is comforting if you are IMC and FIS-B is showing rain but your StormScope is not showing convective activity with that precip.




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[rbridges]

4 hours ago, dzeleski said:

Ill hang on to the WX-900 for now, im guessing I dont entirely get its value because I have not flown in actual yet

Gonna start making some calls and figure out pricing on these options, thank you all for the help. Ill post back once I start ordering things.

Flying in rain is one thing, flying in convective weather (thunderstorm) is another.  Like marauder said, it's comforting to see a blank stormscope when precip is ahead of you.

[Baker Avionics]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:12 PM, PTK said:

Interesting you advise E5 over dual G5s. Especially so considering the SAIB turned AD against Aspen boxes due to blanking out in flight. And now the issue plaguing the E5. 
Are you an authorized dealer for both Aspen and Garmin? Or just Aspen and are therefore biased against Garmin?

Interesting that I haven't heard any PROFESSIONAL advice from you about these units.  There is more to Avionics than reading and a few units.  Now, you can play the whole "Jump on the band wagon" game all you want, I really do not care.  I have Garmin and am very very proficient in their units, installations and especially their troubleshooting because I do it A LOT.  Interestingly enough to note that because a shop ins't a Garmin dealer doesn't make them less.  The thing is that Garmin just wants sales, that's it!  To be able to speak intelligently on items, systems and integration and why and how things work together or don't work together takes a real Avionics Tech not a Minion that all they know is to call Garmin's tired "Tech Support" and the same ones who call them, do not know how to troubleshoot because they only know installation manuals. 

Interesting you choose to put down "non-Garmin" folks who like to have units that work well with a wide array of other manufacturers and not just themselves.  In the Avionics industry, as far as real shops are concerned, we talk and talk a lot.  Garmin is simplistic and is like Costco, no thinking involved and just be lead around like a herd of cattle going to the livestock auction.  Now, if you are liking Garmin because of whatever reason, "Good for you"!  Seriously!  Good for you!  However, do not try to belittle others that have the ability to research and see why they want something and what suits them better.  I am in the business to make money, yes, but ask any of my customers, first of all, 95-99% of them are ALWAYS return customers because here, we educate and give our opinion and why. I did this same thing with Heavy Iron, Helicopter, Corporate and VIP, Lasar and now with my own shop.  It has been very successful and because the main demographic of my business is return business and word of mouth advertising, I will go ahead and keep doing what I do, as it has ALWAYS brought me success and will NOT be shaken, stirred or put on the rocks by someone who is trying to impose his thoughts on the world of Aviation by trying to get into a fight with EVERYONE.  If I have offended anyone, I apologize, just will not stand for this type of rhetoric by someone who tries to call people out on the carpet and has no clue who he is calling out and what those people know.  Either way, sorry, I will step off of my soapbox!  Please forgive me in advance!!!  Let the games begin!!!

[Baker Avionics]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:47 PM, PTK said:

Wondering on what basis does he recommend E5 over G5s. Is he an authorized dealer for both or just Aspen? Or is he biased against Garmin because he can only sell Aspen? In other words can an avionics shop really be unbiased if it’s not an authorized dealer for both?

Well, even if that would be the case, what is your justification Mr. High and Mighty? Why are YOU the expert on Avionics and someone who has been in the industry IN AVIONICS for over 30 years "too biased" though they have worked with virtually everything out there?  Just curious.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Baker Avionics
Misspelled word

[PTK]

13 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

Interestingly enough to note that because a shop ins't a Garmin dealer doesn't make them less. 

That is not what I said and no reason to get bent out of shape so early in the year! On the contrary, because you are a professional I asked for your reasoning of why E5 over G5s. I was seeking knowledge, wanted to learn from your vast experience. Which you haven’t yet provided btw but that’s ok, I understand. You can’t recommend what you can’t sell. And the fact that you are not a Garmin authorized dealer doesn’t make you anything less. That’s ridiculous and I never said anything of the sort! That detail does, however, enter into and is the centerpiece of the equation of what you recommend and why. You are biased against Garmin. Naturally you will push and recommend what you sell. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. I wouldn’t expect to walk into a Chevy dealer and be recommended I go look at BMW’s! 

[Bob Weber]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:08 PM, dzeleski said:

Hi all, so I ended up picking up a 77 M20J thats in pretty good shape, just needs a little panel update to get it to where I want it.

Since this is my first aircraft and ill be using the upgrades to chase my IR I figured I would ask for some opinions on what I plan on doing with it.

The plane has an ancient KX-170B and indicator that is not functioning, this will get pulled and junked. There is also a stormscope that is functioning but is not serviceable as its a WX-900, I plan on removing this and either selling for parts or just junking I see no use for it personally. Finally there is a working Garmin 430 non-WAAS GPS I plan on keeping this and eventually upgrading to WAAS to have a secondary GPS and keep a NAV radio.

My plan for this year is to put in a GNC-355 and a new indicator, this gets me a working secondary radio as well as LPV approaches. On top of that I would like to replace my current EI FP-5 fuel totalizator and JPI edm-700, with an edm-830. I would use this to train and get my IR. Budget for this year is roughly ~15k.

Next year I would like to do dual G5s and a GFC-500 AP, as well as getting that 430 upgraded to waas enabled.

Eventually, I would upgrade the 830 to a 900 or 930 to start removing some of the older gauges from the panel, at this point I would probably have a brand new panel made.

Thoughts? Anything not make sense or should I look at anything else? Thanks!

This whole thread reminds me of a video I saw back in the 80's of a radio conversation between a Lear(if memory serves) and a Florida ATC(if memory serves) about penetration, or lack thereof, into thunderstorms.

 At the time I was tasked to install a WX 10 in the lobby of the FBO where I was employed, their intention was to demonstrate the concept and usefulness of instantaneous indications of any convective, and sometimes clear air turbulence. It worked very well despite the fact Grand Junction Colorado boasts 330 days of VFR a year!

Keep the 900 unless you opt for a WX 500 that, I believe, will display on the Garmin equipment.

 

  End game.

 

  As asked earlier, what is the long term goal, an important consideration.

 

You will not find a more advanced autopilot than Garmins, hands down. Granted, the professionals with more than my 45 years of flying, and nearly 40 years of heavy modifications of every thing from a Gulfstream to a Luscombe, seem to disagree with what my experiences have proven to me.

 

  Your end game needs to start with the autopilot, it is the most integrated system in the aircraft.

 

  In today's software driven world, everything from the audiopanel to the autopilot is digitally connected and needing to communicate.

 

Having observed the struggle to get multiple manufacturers software to "cooperate" during the initial power up and play stage, often over the course of days, I recommend gravitating towards one manufacturer.

 

  Gary and Minn had a great vision when departing King Radio all those years ago, I would run their entire suit.

 

  Think of sitting in KATL and deciding to update some software while waiting on a passenger, then finding yourself sitting there a week later trying to figure out what just happened.

 

  All you get now is manufactures pointing to each other for the blame. G5 or TXI, GTN's and most certainly the GFC for your aircraft.

[Baker Avionics]

55 minutes ago, PTK said:

That is not what I said and no reason to get bent out of shape so early in the year! On the contrary, because you are a professional I asked for  your reasoning of why E5 over G5s. I was seeking knowledge, wanted to learn from your vast experience. Which you haven’t yet provided btw but that’s ok. The fact that you are not a Garmin authorized dealer doesn’t make you anything less. That’s ridiculous and I never said anything of the sort! That detail only enters into the equation of what you recommend and why. Naturally you will push and recommend what you sell. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. I wouldn’t expect to walk into a Chevy dealer and be recommended I go look at BMW’s! 

Re-read your posts and I am not bent out of shape at all. Just letting you know your badgering continually toward everyone is tired and old. I already explained why I suggest E5s over G5s. You must have missed it, not surprised. Haha, well luckily that isn't the case, your reference to Chevy and BMW. It is funny you think you "know where I stand" on things. I just recommended and quoted out a full G3x suite with a 750 and a Remote Audio panel with a full GFC500. I have a 182 and we are installing a GFC500 in 2 weeks, a Cherokee we pulled in last night for a 750, 345R and GMA35c and Monday we have a dual G5 172 flying club plane with OAT. So your great premonition that we do not suggest Garmin is moot and not surprisingly false. It is on a case by case basis and the owners ultimately make that choice. 

It is all about education and application. In the end, if the customer is happy with their choice, then great! I really don't need to try and go into every reason why I recommend one over the other. All units have pros and cons. The main question is "Which poison do you pick?" I think we are all correct. It is a matter preference and application, period. If someone is planning on getting a GFC500, go with a G5. If they are not and are wanting to have an upgrade path, E5. Anyone can point out negative parts, but until you can see and show both sides of the coin, you are the one biased. Not you, in particular Pete, but "You" as a fictitious character and a general person in a hypothetical situation. 

My question is what is the upgrade path with the G5s? If later on down the road I want to build on my panel with an affordable solution, what does the G5 provide in that manner? Has the E5 truly been figured out since that SAIB? Where am I getting better support? If I am going to replace my AP or integrate my current one, which will I go with and/or which unit integrates more completely? As a general rule, when there are SW updates, how are they handled by each manufacturer and who pays for them? 

I pose these types of questions to help folks reason on their upgrades. I personally don't care what they choose as the installation is the same and it will work when it leaves. I hope you can see that attempts to try and cut down thoughts are not going to work. I understand you are a good person and you just like to ruffle feathers but it gets pretty old. You have pretty good product knowledge, just please try to be more two way versus one way. Garmin is good for some solutions, others are good too. Garmin is better at some, others are better at some. 

I appreciate your thoughts and have dealt with confrontation a lot so I will squelch it if need be. I would rather NOT banter back and forth and call folks names and belittle other but I will defend my turf and ways if need be. I would love and am looking forward to more conversations with you, let's just keep them civil and on a 2 way street versus obstinate and haughty. Fair? I apologize if I have offended you or upset you or anyone else. Just saying what needs said. Ok, start firing the arrows now!!! Lol

[gsxrpilot]

Pro Tip:

Unfortunately some just don't add anything useful to the conversation.

[Baker Avionics]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Pro Tip:

Unfortunately some just don't add anything useful to the conversation.

I am trying and will do better, if referring to me.  I apologize if so.  I DO love your posts and input on things.

[gsxrpilot]

17 minutes ago, Baker Avionics said:

I am trying and will do better, if referring to me.  I apologize if so.  I DO love your posts and input on things.

No, no. I'm just sorta half way tongue in cheek, reminding people of that ignore feature. It can make the whole MooneySpace experience much more pleasant.

Are you kidding... I'm wondering if Grants Pass is too far to take my Mooney for some avionics work. I'd love to bring her to you for some work.

[KB4]

On 1/1/2020 at 7:12 PM, PTK said:

Interesting you advise E5 over dual G5s. Especially so considering the SAIB turned AD against Aspen boxes due to blanking out in flight. And now the issue plaguing the E5. 
Are you an authorized dealer for both Aspen and Garmin? Or just Aspen and are therefore biased against Garmin?

I agree, a little full disclosure.  He is not a Garmin dealer from what I could see on his website.  I have G5 HSI and have been very happy with it.  Micro usb and Software updates are simple. 

[Baker Avionics]

 

14 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

No, no. I'm just sorta half way tongue in cheek, reminding people of that ignore feature. It can make the whole MooneySpace experience much more pleasant.

Are you kidding... I'm wondering if Grants Pass is too far to take my Mooney for some avionics work. I'd love to bring her to you for some work.

Thank you Paul!  I appreciate it!  Whatever you need, we are here!

[PTK]

2 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

I really don't need to try and go into every reason why I recommend one over the other.

Well, you do. You are the pro we look to for education. If not you then who? As you said you educate your customers so they can make good decisions. 

[Baker Avionics]

8 minutes ago, KB4 said:

I agree, a little full disclosure.  He is not a Garmin dealer from what I could see on his website.  I have G5 HSI and have been very happy with it.  Micro usb and Software updates are simple. 

Not a Garmin Dealer, haven't tried to be one either.  However, like I seem to not be able to stress and get through to some folks, I don't care what folks purchase, as long as it fits their application and needs.  I find it so amusing that pilot's believe that you are not a "Real Avionics Shop" unless you have Garmin. I find it funny because we are booked out for almost most of 2020 and we do not have a Garmin Dealership, yet the other Avionics shop on the field, that is a Garmin Dealer literally has zero planes in the hangar right now and hasn't for about 2 months now.  I hope this doesn't "Ruin my reputation".  I love MS and the Mooniacs that are here!!!  All of you folks!!!  If you are ever in Oregon, from NY, come by for a visit and a cup of coffee. Would love to have you and maybe break some bread!!!

[MIm20c]

On 1/1/2020 at 11:08 PM, dzeleski said:

It has a GDL-82 installed. I’ll leave the stormscope since it works but I think once it hits the can that might be the end of it. We will see when I start flying in actual

That’s a very nice looking panel!

I think that’s probably what I’m leaning towards. Get my backup nav/com working, and I really think that 440 might end up being what I do.

Definitely have a few calls to make 

Just a heads up that with the 82 you probably already have a waas antenna installed. That can be connected to the new navigator and the position info sent to the 82. Depending on where the 82’s installed could save some labor and another hole for the antenna farm (possibly some money too as the 440’s do not ship with an antenna).