Adi Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 Hey folks, I was just about to pull the trigger on buying a M20J (you can see in my only other post I'm excitedly looking for someone to help me ferry it across the country :))) but I had one concern I wanted to clear before I do that. The elevator has a small crack, about 1cm in depth, on the trailing edge. Picture attached. The shop that did the PPI didn't seem too concerned and just commented that it "might need a stop drill". Do you folks have any experience with this? - is it actually airworthy like this? - Is stop drilling a legal fix for this? - any idea how much it would cost? Would the elevator need to be rebalanced after this? 1 Quote
1964-M20E Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 Stop drilling would stop the progression of the crack. It appears to be on the upper and lower skin. Maybe hangar rash? Looks like paint missing just forward of the trailing edge. Is this related to the crack? Maybe you could add a doubler above and below the crack after stop drilling. The purists here will want a new elevator from Mooney. Not sure of costs but I’d anticipate $5amu or more. You could get a used replacement @Alan Fox might have one I'm not an A&P or IA I think with stop drilling would probably be airworthy. A doubler would be a little better I believe. Quote
larryb Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 Is that a missing piece of Bondo forward of the crack? Are there any logbook entries for an elevator repair? I'm not an A&P either, but I am an engineer and I would be concerned about this. Flight control surfaces are critical. I would dig deeper into this issue. 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 The problem with a doubler is that control surfaces need to be balanced, so sensitive even painting requires a check of the balance.Can’t you stop drill it and weld it, then touchup paint it....if done professionally you would hardly notice it?Tom Quote
MB65E Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 Any repair to a flight control requires a 337 as it is a major repair. -Matt Quote
EricJ Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 This is a good question and I'm interested in what experienced maintainers might say. If your PPI shop wasn't worried about it, that's a decent first data point. The Mooney Service Manual for my J model doesn't offer much guidance on repairs other than to consult AC 43.13, which has a bunch of guidance on crack repairs in Par. 4-59, the first point of which is to stop drill it. I wouldn't even do that until I got some further advice from some experienced sheet metal folks. A stop drill or even another rivet there, or perhaps doing nothing might be the way to go. According to the SM any repairs on control surfaces require balance rechecking , so there's that to consider as well. Quote
EricJ Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, MB65E said: Any repair to a flight control requires a 337 as it is a major repair. -Matt I think that's just for the controls, though, rather than the surfaces. I'm looking at b.1.xx in Appendix A. Is there another? Quote
MB65E Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 Flight Controls are the surfaces... I repaired a rudder on an Extra at an Airshow per the manual. I was grilled later about 337’s etc by a few people including the Local FSDO.... A MedVac KingAir at 3am fired up in front of the hangar we were in and blew our airplane into another KingAir spinner. -Matt 1 Quote
EricJ Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, MB65E said: Flight Controls are the surfaces... I repaired a rudder on an Extra at an Airshow per the manual. I was grilled later about 337’s etc by a few people including the Local FSDO.... A MedVac KingAir at 3am fired up in front of the hangar we were in and blew our airplane into another KingAir spinner. -Matt My question came from the wording in App A b.1.xx, which lists everything *but* surfaces, and stops at the control horns. "(xx) Parts of the control system such as control columns, pedals, shafts, brackets, or horns." I didn't see anything else in Appendix A specific to control surfaces. 1 Quote
steingar Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 I'd get a new PPI shop. A crack in a control surface si a no go for a purchase, unless there's a plan in place to fix it. Says me find another J. Mooney made a bunch. 1 1 Quote
Pete M Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 I'll ferry it for ya. Where is it and where are you? 3 Quote
KB4 Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 I say its a NO GO for a trip across the country. Buy decision is up to you, but I recommend sourcing a replacement sooner than later. You are buying it to fly the thing. Last thing you want is the crack getting worse and now plane is grounded for who know how long. If it can be repaired and is cost effective then great. 1 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 You can replace the skins. A lot cheaper than a new one. A salvage part might be the cheapest. I would fly that plane. That crack is unlikely grow unless you bang the plane into another post. 2 1 Quote
Oldguy Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 Try here to look for a spare part. https://www.loewensmooneysalvage.com Quote
PT20J Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 You might check with the Stacey Ellis in the Mooney service dept. for guidance that might help with your negotiations. 1 1 Quote
Alan Fox Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 This is airworthy if it is stopdrilled , You can not patch balanced control surfaces , regardless of balance , It is not an airworthy issue , it can be filled and painted if rebalanced , and you are not buying a brand new aircraft , Crowd surfing is not the place to get reliable info , ESPECIALLY here …. Talk to someone with an A&P and even an IA …. 8 1 Quote
Guest Posted December 13, 2019 Report Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: You can replace the skins. A lot cheaper than a new one. A salvage part might be the cheapest. I would fly that plane. That crack is unlikely grow unless you bang the plane into another post. The voice of reason! Clarence Quote
Shiny moose Posted December 14, 2019 Report Posted December 14, 2019 Just fly it Fly it. Hanger rash can be common on 40-50 year old aircraft, at least they didnt bondo and repaint!!! Then you wouldnt have known but it would have looked really good. you might be surprised at the amount of filler and repaint used to disguise dents and dings on these older aircraft to make them look really good, I prefer to know what is there, that it flies straight and true. Im no beauty queen and neither is my Mooney 1 Quote
Yetti Posted December 14, 2019 Report Posted December 14, 2019 There is a post or a hangar door with a matching dent. Post -1 Mooney - 0 Your quest for a similar one without blemishes can begin. If you have the plane, then you can use it to retrieve the part once your quest has possible acquisition targets. Quote
Eight8Victor Posted December 14, 2019 Report Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) I've been to this bone yard and They have a “K” model that I bought some salvaged parts off of. I can't tell if this is correct, but it's priced right. located just south of Jacksonville, FL. On a grass strip. Don't try to fly in with a Mooney. https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOONEY-M20-SERIES-AIRCRAFT-CORRUGATED-RIGHT-ELEVATOR/271327608006?hash=item3f2c62bcc6:g:OooAAOxydB1SjqMk Edited December 14, 2019 by Eight8Victor Added link Quote
Adi Posted December 17, 2019 Author Report Posted December 17, 2019 Hey folks, Thank you all for your advice and replies. I got two more data points from different a&Ps who both said this is not a big issue, can be stop drilled but not an airworthiness issue.. so I went ahead with the plane. I'm now a Mooney owner! Adi 12 1 Quote
EricJ Posted December 17, 2019 Report Posted December 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Adi said: Hey folks, Thank you all for your advice and replies. I got two more data points from different a&Ps who both said this is not a big issue, can be stop drilled but not an airworthiness issue.. so I went ahead with the plane. I'm now a Mooney owner! Adi Congrats! Glad it worked out! 1 Quote
Oldguy Posted December 17, 2019 Report Posted December 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Adi said: Hey folks, Thank you all for your advice and replies. I got two more data points from different a&Ps who both said this is not a big issue, can be stop drilled but not an airworthiness issue.. so I went ahead with the plane. I'm now a Mooney owner! Adi Congratulations, @Adi. Now you need to add some pictures of the new mistress along with updating your avatar. Let's see her! Quote
WaynePierce Posted December 17, 2019 Report Posted December 17, 2019 My one and only insurance claim was for something that looked exactly like that. Hangar rash from an I-beam. I had a reputable company re-skin it and paint it. then made sure all the paperwork was added to the log. I felt sick... Quote
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