EricJ Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said: Does anyone remember the Japanese acquisition binge in the 1980s? How many of those investments went south? (Rockefeller Center?) I suspect the same will happen with the Chinese. They have invested almost $200B in US companies the past few years, Mooney being one. They will have to sell these fallen assets, (just like the Japanese did), and someone will be there to pick up cheap assets and resume the companies' operations. A co-worker was in biz school getting an MBA when the Rockefeller Center and Japanese/Arab property grabs were going on. His biz school was telling them what a horrible thing this was for the US and for US businesses. I made the case that the money all those guys were paying were going to the US previous owners, and the only way it'll be bad is if they're resold at a later date back to US ownership for a lot more, sending that money overseas, and then the prices collapse, hurting the US owners, and that that was a pretty unlikely scenario. I found it equally likely the benefit would be to the US, which turned out to be substantially true. I lost interest in biz school at that point if that was what they were teaching. And we missed out on selling some family property to an Arab conglomerate that was buying up land in the area for way more that it was worth and ultimately selling it for a loss. So, yeah, the international finance/foreign ownership thing is easily vilified, usually for no good reason. 1 hour ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said: The only alternative would be to move the production equipment to somewhere production could be done less expensively. (Would you buy Mooney parts made in China/Viet Nam/etc.?) Maybe the line could live on from there... I was wondering whether the supposed 90 remaining staff were crating up tooling and equipment to send it elsewhere. Quote
thinwing Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) I purchased my Bravo in oct of 2009.At that time,we were in the midst of the housing bubble financial crisis,Mooney aircraft company had ( I think 11 employees)been scraping by mfding parts .My 2001 model was on the line ,unfinished and unpainted since December of 2000 when the line Also was shut down.Mooney has had a foreign owner in the past (French).Past experience hopefully will predict the future of this company.One thing Chinese investors did was provide a lot of new equipment ,replacing presses from the fifties.Ignore quote,no idea where it came from On 6/18/2019 at 2:48 PM, exM20K said: 11 years using TKS extensively for four of those years commuting 50 hours/month NYC-BOS. No corrosion. 3 years with the Acclaim, previous owner was KDET - based and used it as much as I do. No corrosion. DMAX did suggest spraying some Corrosion-X in the little slits on the horizontal stab after use. easy to do, and I do. -dan Edited November 13, 2019 by thinwing Mystery qoute Quote
RogueOne Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: You can pick out the appropriate stage which every post falls per the classic Five Stages of Grief and Loss (Kubler-Ross Model) Denial Anger Bargaining Depression Acceptance A frank assessment of the situation is hard for many to accept initially. F that. I reject your view categorically. Like 80 J models though. Crying is best done alone. 1 1 Quote
RogueOne Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 And stop calling me Frank. 1 1 1 Quote
RogueOne Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 Massive EMP attack? That is something to worry about. 1 Quote
afward Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, RogueOne said: F that. I reject your view categorically. Like 80 J models though. Crying is best done alone. 1 minute ago, RogueOne said: And stop calling me Frank. Just now, RogueOne said: Massive EMP attack? That is something to worry about. Rogue, has anyone ever told you that you're a mess? I say that in good humor, of course. Quote
RogueOne Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 I’d rather be a mess than Frank...speaking Frankly. 3 3 1 Quote
Guest Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: On the Ultra models Mooney went to the effort and expense to redesign the chromoly cage to accommodate a second door and to make the doors 4 inches longer along with a new composite shell. Does anyone know or have any insight regarding why Mooney did not widen the cabin from its traditional 43.5 inch width to something more like the Cirrus 49 inch cabin (even it was just at the elbows or shoulders?) at the time? Was this just a quick modification done on the cheap after blowing over $10 million on the failed M10T? Why didn't they do it right to make it more of a game changer, at least by Mooney standards? My guess on the width issue is that Mooney is expecting us to start mass dieting, but I have no proof. Clarence Quote
Schllc Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 They need to get the cost below $600 and increase the useful load by 300lbsTheir sales would skyrocket. Not saying it’s easy, it close to a million for what is effectively a 2 person aircraft severely limits the pool of buyers. Full disclaimer, I’ve owned two mooneys and I’m still going to buy another one, regardless of what they decide It’s a wonderful aircraft and short of damage, there is very little in the way of parts that couldn’t be obtained. it’s time they exploited the part 23 rewrite and mades some real changes to make the product more attractive to non mooniancs 4 Quote
kevinw Posted November 13, 2019 Report Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Schllc said: They need to get the cost below $600 and increase the useful load by 300lbsTheir sales would skyrocket. Not saying it’s easy, it close to a million for what is effectively a 2 person aircraft severely limits the pool of buyers. Full disclaimer, I’ve owned two mooneys and I’m still going to buy another one, regardless of what they decide It’s a wonderful aircraft and short of damage, there is very little in the way of parts that couldn’t be obtained. it’s time they exploited the part 23 rewrite and mades some real changes to make the product more attractive to non mooniancs I agree. We all know the UL is the Achilles heel in Mooney aircraft but it's speed and efficiency is the trade-off. It definitely costs them sales. I seriously considered a Cirrus only a few months ago for this very reason. Then I came across a 98 Ovation with a UL of 1066 and jumped on it. Once I remove the vacuum system and add LED navigation lighting I'm hoping to get it very close to or even at 1100 lbs. Like other models, such as Bonanzas, it seems like the newer the airframes the heavier they are. BTW, I also agree that if I'm going to spend $800K on a new aircraft, it better be able to carry four average size people or I'll keep looking. Quote
mike_elliott Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 5 hours ago, HRM said: Mooney is not making wood wings anymore (imagine the labor in that!) What do you mean they are not? Just what do you think this is? Rumor is that mgmt has been monitoring Mooneyspace and they realize based on the vast expertise expounded here that the only way to win new sales is to bring back the $7,000 M20 wood plane. 1 7 Quote
aviatoreb Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: What do you mean they are not? Just what do you think this is? Rumor is that mgmt has been monitoring Mooneyspace and they realize based on the vast expertise expounded here that the only way to win new sales is to bring back the $7,000 M20 wood plane. Sweet! 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: Does anyone know or have any insight regarding why Mooney did not widen the cabin from its traditional 43.5 inch width to something more like the Cirrus 49 inch cabin (even it was just at the elbows or shoulders?) at the time? 1980, You have been in a Mooney right? You know what Mooneys are known for... speed efficiency and that other thing not related to cabin width... right? What brings you to MS? Try to stay positive while learning about airplanes... MS is usually a pretty mellow place... Factory closing topics are going to bring some added stress. Try to keep up with the changes... stay positive... Best regards, -a- 1 1 Quote
exM20K Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 4 hours ago, kevinw said: it better be able to carry four average size people How far? Most ovations can carry 4 FAA standards 2+ hours... 1 Quote
HRM Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: Does anyone know or have any insight regarding why Mooney did not widen the cabin... Easy to lengthen, very difficult to widen. What Mooney are you flying @1980Mooney? Quote
HRM Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 Just now, 1980Mooney said: J Missile 300. A short body Ovation essentially Sweet! Almost as nice as a Super 21 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, 1980Mooney said: J Missile 300. A short body Ovation essentially mid body... Short bodies are the A, B, C, D, E... because they are the shortest of the Mooneys... F, G, J, K, including Missile and Rocket are the mid bodies... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
RogueOne Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: J Missile 300. A short body Ovation essentially What’s your N Number? Mine is N989TG. My bet is that I don’t get a response. You can PM me if you don’t want to publicly state it for whatever reason. 1 1 Quote
kevinw Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 How far? Most ovations can carry 4 FAA standards 2+ hours... As long as TKS or A/C isn’t installed and little or no baggage, you’re right. I looked at a 2000 O2 with TKS, that’s still for sale, with a UL of 917. With only 50 gallons of fuel we can all do the math. My point is not to bash these fantastic planes we fly but to point out a weakness I would like to see addressed. I’m glad I found the Ovation I purchased because I don’t think I would ever be happy with a Cirrus. Coming from a J with a UL of 900, I just wanted an airplane that could carry a load and feel lucky I found it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 1980, Changes at Mooney were plenty... Find the year by year list of all the changes Mooney built... You have latched onto some quirky ideas for a Mooney owner... Wider cabins, and wing profiles that allow for more UL would be great... The cost is using more power to go fast... You are coming across as trying to be a Mooney basher... How long do you expect this to last? Go Cirrus! Best regards, -a- Quote
Bravoman Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 I’m not optimistic that we will ever see the production of a new Mooney aircraft ever again. However there is most definitely money to be made making and selling the parts. I can’t imagine a scenario where someone doesn’t pick that part of the business up if the current owner doesn’t do it. 2 1 Quote
Urs_Wildermuth Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 Am I the only one to wonder if this sudden shut down has anything to do with the Acclaim Accident we were following in another thread? This was a brand new Acclaim Ultra. Has anyone got any insights of what the investigation in this horrible event targets into? It has looked like an engine problem but possibly there is something else which would prompt this kind of abrupt action? Quote
NJMac Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 Am I the only one to wonder if this sudden shut down has anything to do with the Acclaim Accident we were following in another thread? This was a brand new Acclaim Ultra. Has anyone got any insights of what the investigation in this horrible event targets into? It has looked like an engine problem but possibly there is something else which would prompt this kind of abrupt action? On the Mooney Facebook group they said 2 of the 4 delivered acclaim Ultras were in fatal accidents. If that's true, it would make one wonder if the correlation is there. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Quote
ArtVandelay Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 On the Mooney Facebook group they said 2 of the 4 delivered acclaim Ultras were in fatal accidents. If that's true, it would make one wonder if the correlation is there. Yea, but is it a plane problem or a pilot problem dealing with the fast plane? I think it was the latter. Tom 1 Quote
j3gq Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) On 11/10/2019 at 5:26 PM, alextstone said: @FloridaMan would you please share your list of parts you purchased? I was just talking with my wife about buying critical items if the factory reopens briefly... Others, what would you include in your factory only critical parts list? Alex Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk If you were just considering wear (and not tear), I am sure one could come up with a good short list, but many people will be coming up with the same lists soon. When you add parts needed because of damage caused on the parking (damage to our M20J exclusively happened happened on the ground) you would have to add all the feathers sticking out (ailerons, tail, cowl, spinner, I don't know what). You would have to shop parts for up to the value of your plane or more. Really useful ? Edited November 14, 2019 by j3gq make it better Quote
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