Anyone have personal maximum hours per day?

[NJMac]

About every 5 years, the limit seems to get adjusted a bit lower. Now, the limit is 8 hours with 2 stops. We usually try to make a trip with just one stop, and keep the front end travel long and a shorter hop after the stop.
Still, the smallest bladder in the plane sets the length of the legs.

You'll enjoy this... My wife started wearing skirts when we fly. So she can more easily pee while we zoom along.

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[Sean S]

I am good for about 8, all hand flying with no auto pilot in smooth air. Turbulence ratchets up the work load and reduces me to a pile of rubble in 3 hours!

[Hank]

I generally go as long as it takes, up to when I start feeling tired. Day, night, IMC--rach wears me out a little quicker.

Using George doesn't have too much of an effect, cause it's only Brittain AccuTrak. Much nicer than nothing, but I still must be watchful and alert, and keep tweaking the heading bug.

Four hours is about my limit for leg length, need to stand up and walk around. 

[Flash]

On 10/6/2019 at 5:47 AM, NJMac said:

Wife and i took off from Dayton yesterday and planned to make it 3 legs totalling 10 hrs in foreflight. I called it about an hour from our destination as I wasn't comfortable with my performance at the time.

First, as others have mentioned, congratulations on your decision to stop when you did. Stopping an hour short of a planned destination is one of the things I've been proudest of doing in my 20 years of Mooney ownership. I've done it for weather, and for fatigue, and for a mixture of weather and fatigue.

I've flown Santa Monica to New Haven in a day, and Santa Monica to College Park, Md., in a day. Those were long days. Good weather and a good autopilot made them doable. I'm less sure now than I was at the time I flew those trips that those long days were wise. As Part 91 pilots, we get to make choices, but it's worth considering why pilots flying under different rules face restrictions on flight hours.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Flash said:

As Part 91 pilots, we get to make choices, but it's worth considering why pilots flying under different rules face restrictions on flight hours.

Pilots flying under different rules face a lot of restrictions that we don't--age (higher minimum, lower maximum), no single pilot, much more paperwork, frequent STARS and arrival procedures, etc.

[NJMac]

Pilots flying under different rules face a lot of restrictions that we don't--age (higher minimum, lower maximum), no single pilot, much more paperwork, frequent STARS and arrival procedures, etc.

The whole duty time of the other rules was why I opened this conversation. I don't know the other regulations but would like to know. Figured a few other guys would know easily from their daily vocation.

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[ilovecornfields]

43 minutes ago, NJMac said:

The whole duty time of the other rules was why I opened this conversation. I don't know the other regulations but would like to know. Figured a few other guys would know easily from their daily vocation.

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I’m not sure what I would do with this information. The duty hour restriction for a professional two-pilot crew who have a support staff and fly multi engine jets every day would not be applicable to me. I like the MMOPA-FRAT app because it basically agrees with my gut feeling and reminds me sometimes that I may be taking on more risk than I realize.

Since I’m not a professional pilot and I never HAVE to be somewhere, if I’m not feeling great or there’s a concern with the plane or weather, I don’t go. Since I like my family to keep enjoying their flightS with me I don’t plan any legs longer than 2-3 hours or more than 5 hours of flying in a day. I’ve cancelled flights because of moderate turbulence that I would have had no problems with, but I knew would not be enjoyable for my family.

I think it’s nice to know what the professionals do, but it also good to keep in mind that that’s not you (or me) and that we should probably be more conservative than they are. Also, I don’t care about how many hours of sleep you get or how long you’ve been flying if you didn’t get good sleep, are sick or are taking medications that impair your flying you should stay on the ground. I’m frequently flabbergasted at what medications people are taking while driving every day and how that car accident they subsequently (and frequently) suffer from “couldn’t have anything to do with my meds.”

Be safe out there.

[PT20J]

Part 135 limit is 8 hrs flight time

CFI limit is 8 hrs instruction time

 

[Mooneymite]

I am surprised that no one has really made the distinction between flight time and duty time and the inter-relationship.

Think about this:  you wake up at 0700, start flying at 8.  In one hour you get to your destination and do 8 hard hours of negotiations on a business deal.  Then you fly one hour home.  That's only 2 hours flight time, but you may be totally worn out and unfit to fly.

About the last person in the world who should be making decisions about fitness to fly is a fatigued pilot.  You have to determine the rules when you are not fatigued.  Rules that include total duty time, not just flight time.

Here's the guidance for part 135; part 121 is similar, but different:

 

 

§ 135.267 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: Unscheduled one- and two-pilot crews.

(a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time as a member of a one- or two-pilot crew if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed -

(1) 500 hours in any calendar quarter.

(2) 800 hours in any two consecutive calendar quarters.

(3) 1,400 hours in any calendar year.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight when added to any other commercial flying by that flight crewmember may not exceed -

(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this part for the operation being conducted.

(c) A flight crewmember's flight time may exceed the flight time limits of paragraph (b) of this section if the assigned flight time occurs during a regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours and -

(1) If this duty period is immediately preceded by and followed by a required rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours of rest;

(2) If flight time is assigned during this period, that total flight time when added to any other commercial flying by the flight crewmember may not exceed -

(i) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(ii) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots; and

(3) If the combined duty and rest periods equal 24 hours.

(d) Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment.

(e) When a flight crewmember has exceeded the daily flight time limitations in this section, because of circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder or flight crewmember (such as adverse weather conditions), that flight crewmember must have a rest period before being assigned or accepting an assignment for flight time of at least -

(1) 11 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by not more than 30 minutes;

(2) 12 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 30 minutes, but not more than 60 minutes; and

(3) 16 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 60 minutes.

(f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.

[aviatoreb]

Just a little detail.  I log flight hours from my engine time.  From the time I fire up until the time I shut down.  I don't log pre-flight, fueling time, pulling the airplane in and out of the hangar.  Driving to the airport.  Planning time at home on the computer etc, although that is clearly fatigue time relevant to this discussion.  but for flight hours in my pilot log book, I put the time in hours that the prop is spinning.

[Mooneymite]

14 CFR 1.1

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

This is very different from what constitutes flight time on an engine.  Generally, only airborne time counts toward TBO, but there are exceptions to this.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

14 CFR 1.1

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;

This is what I log, based on the difference between the moving white and settable-but-not-moving red hands on my yoke clock. Engine time is whatever accumulates on the tach, which may or may not correlate well to my flight time.

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

14 CFR 1.1

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

This is very different from what constitutes flight time on an engine.  Generally, only airborne time counts toward TBO, but there are exceptions to this.

Right that is within 2 min of what I just said.  I didn't mean tach time.  I meant engine on time, which is easy for me to track through my EDM engine recorder that records all parameters in minutes digitally, rather than a tach that reads according to rpm setting.  It is easier for me to do it this way since I just download my data and I have it on my home computer next to where I keep my log book.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

Right that is within 2 min of what I just said.  I didn't mean tach time.  I meant engine on time, which is easy for me to track through my EDM engine recorder that records all parameters in minutes digitally, rather than a tach that reads according to rpm setting.  It is easier for me to do it this way since I just download my data and I have it on my home computer next to where I keep my log book.

I've sat at the Hold Short, ready to go, while an airliner flew a complete GPS approach to the runway that I wanted to depart from. I've also had taxi routes that were greater than 2 nm long, and been as much as #8 in line. My clock was ticking during all of those, and the whole shebang went into my logbook each time.

[aviatoreb]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

I've sat at the Hold Short, ready to go, while an airliner flew a complete GPS approach to the runway that I wanted to depart from. I've also had taxi routes that were greater than 2 nm long, and been as much as #8 in line. My clock was ticking during all of those, and the whole shebang went into my logbook each time.

Exactly - you are "flying in the environment" even when taking instructions from ground control on the ground moving through the taxiway system.  Hold short - at the runway threshold - is a critical command for safety!  And you are complying!  Log that.

[Warren]

Longest for me was a return from the Bahamas to Denver earlier this year.  A storm front forced us to overnight in Fort Pierce, Florida which left us with the choice to stop for a second night or go all the way in the second day.  Total time from Fort Pierce to Denver was 12 hours flying (engine start to stop, which is probably closer to 11 hours of real flying) due to significant head winds.  We stopped 1/2 way for a break and a little more fuel, then a second rest stop at about 75% of the trip.  A much longer break and dinner, then the final decision to stay or fly the last 2 hours.  We felt good so decided to push on.  It was a very long day but the autopilot and a couple of breaks made it tolerable and I still felt sharp on landing.  Being fully rested and coming home from a relaxing vacation helped.  I expected it was likely we would overnight and certainly would have defaulted to that decision if there was any question.  It is possible under ideal conditions but I would never plan or commit to this long a flight without rest stops and  a mental check to stop and overnight if there was any issues with fatigue.

[gsxrpilot]

For me, the flying seems to be relaxing. Granted I have a good autopilot, excellent instrumentation, and a comfortable airplane. But even after the longest flights, I feel almost rested rather than exhausted. I certainly have had stressful flights. It's usually weather related. But I do enjoy the longer flights. 

Our longest day was about 14 hours duty time from Portland, ME to Austin, TX. But that included three stops. My longest single legs have been just under 6 hours. 

Sharing the workload of the flight helps to make it much more relaxing.

1. Have a good autopilot and use it.
2. Have a good engine monitor and know how to read it.
3. Add SiriusXM radio for inflight entertainment.
4. Fly high. Above 15,000 you likely have the airspace all to yourself. As well as more time and options if the fan up front quits.
5. File IFR, let ATC help out with the flight including traffic advisories, weather, deviation suggestions, etc.

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the inflight service