Redoing my J interior (continuous thread)

[Oldguy]

Probably first of several posts to this thread.

So the plan was to clean up and patch the plastic in the plane (with instruction and materials from Bruce Jaeger) to make it look a bit nicer. But everyone knows how much scope can creep when you have the "while we are doing this" thoughts. Now, several months later, with invoices from Aero Comfort, Airtex, Plane Plastics, and others, and a plane with absolutely no interior in it, I am starting to go back together. I will share some of the information I gathered from multiple sources as I found it spread over various threads and web sites. Where possible, like this first post, I will share products and techniques I used to make things easier for me.

First, I discovered the carpet in my plane was easily removed from the front as a previous owner had installed snaps to hold it down. No velcro strips or other "slippery when hot" adhesives, and I will be going back with snaps on the new Airtex carpeting I bought. Reading other posts about doing snaps to hold down carpet, I can only agree I would probably not use them if they had not been installed earlier. Other carpet - not so easy. The seat backs on the rear seats have carpet on them (removable rear seats on my '84) which was glued down with what can only be described as the adhesive from hell, as were the cargo area and the spar cover in front of the rear seats. I searched what others had used to remove it, and it looked like MEK was the solution of choice, although not a favorite one. I know why. I started in on the cargo area with MEK and quickly decided breathing was much more important than removing old glue. Even with a respirator and air blowing INTO the cabin, it was amazing how much I inhaled. So I looked for another way.

The glue supplied with the replacement carpet is a 3M Adhesive, so I decided to look for a 3M adhesive remover. Success! I bought a can of 3M Specialty Adhesive Remover - Aerosol (3M-38987) from Amazon and it was amazing!! Yes, it still took a bit of elbow grease with the plastic scrapers I used, but the picture below shows what 15 minutes with the adhesive remover and a plastic scraper did on the spar cover plastic. The adhesive spray can is in the background. Because I was doing it on the counter of our outside kitchen (not popular with others) I did not have a fan blowing, did use the respirator, and had no problem. I removed the rear seat backs to strip them and repaint, and again had no problem with getting them adhesive/carpet free.

My mechanic is on a cruise to Alaska this week, and allowed me to pull my plane into his hangar - air conditioned hangar - to work on it rather than in my 95dF sweat box, so I am planning on getting as much of the interior put back in as I can this week because it is heading to the avionics shop in Birmingham on September 16th. Hopefully, more pictures of progress to follow.

 

[bradp]

I like the idea of a plastic/composite spar cover. My plane had OEM carpet glued to the spar.  It does nothing to protect spar from dirt or debris falling behind the carpet (this is a real concern with the “Cheerio graveyard “ my Children are constantly trying to cultivate.  It would also be a better way to tie in my rear headset plugs which currently face up to the world, open to dirt and debris. 

Can anyone share how the plastic covers are secured in place? Or is it just glue?

[jetdriven]

Screwed to 4 small metal  tabs I think. I built a carbon honeycomb spar cover but haven’t fit it yet. 

[Oldguy]

7 hours ago, bradp said:

Can anyone share how the plastic covers are secured in place? Or is it just glue?

Here is a piece of the page from the IPC. 36 is the spar cover, 37 the screw holding it off the spar, and 38 is where the screw attaches. There are 4 each of 37 and 38 spaced across the front of the spar. The carpet wraps slightly over the top of the spar cover in the back and fully covers the front.

Hope this helps.

 

[jaylw314]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 7:53 AM, Oldguy said:

The glue supplied with the replacement carpet is a 3M Adhesive, so I decided to look for a 3M adhesive remover. Success! I bought a can of 3M Specialty Adhesive Remover - Aerosol (3M-38987) from Amazon and it was amazing!! Yes, it still took a bit of elbow grease with the plastic scrapers I used, but the picture below shows what 15 minutes with the adhesive remover and a plastic scraper did on the spar cover plastic. The adhesive spray can is in the background. Because I was doing it on the counter of our outside kitchen (not popular with others) I did not have a fan blowing, did use the respirator, and had no problem. I removed the rear seat backs to strip them and repaint, and again had no problem with getting them adhesive/carpet free

 

Sorry, that cracked me up 

I find that 3M stuff to be pretty powerful smelling, and I actually don't have much of a problem with the smell of solvents, although I suppose the latter is probably pretty bad for you...

[David Lloyd]

I can look at a can of MEK on the shelf at Lowe's and have a pounding headache the rest of the day.  Somehow I can never keep a respirator tight enough to keep the odor away for an hour of work.  The 3M-38987 does work pretty good if you follow the directions.

[ArtVandelay]

I can look at a can of MEK on the shelf at Lowe's and have a pounding headache the rest of the day.  Somehow I can never keep a respirator tight enough to keep the odor away for an hour of work.  The 3M-38987 does work pretty good if you follow the directions.

They now have a MEK substitute instead, so no pounding headache.


Tom

[Oldguy]

16 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

They now have a MEK substitute instead, so no pounding headache.


Tom

Actually tried the substitute MEK as well. Appears the effectiveness went away with the pounding headache.

[Andy95W]

29 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Actually tried the substitute MEK as well. Appears the effectiveness went away with the pounding headache.

It sounds like this is one of those cases where you have to pick your poison. 

Oh, wait- this actually is poison.

[DonMuncy]

My Home Depot (or Lowes, I forget which) stopped selling the real MEK in quarts, but still sold gallons. I guess they think that cheap people need protection, but rich guys are smart enough to know what they are doing. I don't know if that is still the case. I bought a gallon several years ago, and still have half of it. 

Do you think this is the reason I can't remember anything anymore? 

[Sandman993]

On 9/10/2019 at 4:48 PM, David Lloyd said:

I can look at a can of MEK on the shelf at Lowe's and have a pounding headache the rest of the day.  Somehow I can never keep a respirator tight enough to keep the odor away for an hour of work.  The 3M-38987 does work pretty good if you follow the directions.

Go to your local DuPont or PPG paint store and buy the appropriate respirator... they come in three sizes from 3m. Get yourself some goggles as that stuff can get in via the soft tissue... 

For fitment, get yourself a pak of sweetener (fake sugar), mix it up in water and spray it around where the mask makes contact with your face... if you can taste or sense the sweet ... your mask leaking. Re-fit and repeat.

good luck and refrain from buying safety equipment from Home Depot  

[RLCarter]

i put my carpet in with snaps, it was glued at one point and it was a royal pain in the ass to remove the glue. I put a box fan at the door and opened the baggage door for ventilation, what worked best for me was folding a shop towel into quarters dampened with Acetone and letting it sit in one spot which gave it time to soften the glue before it flashed off. I now know why the old glue was just left there for so long

[DualRatedFlyer]

Anyone have a picture of said snaps?  Curious as to how they are installed.

 

[Sandman993]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:26 AM, Andy95W said:

It sounds like this is one of those cases where you have to pick your poison. 

Oh, wait- this actually is poison.

Yep... it’s called methyl ethyl kill you quick

the real name in methyl ethyl keytone

i use MEKP (peroxide) here to change resin from liquid to solid. It chases the styrene monomer out of resin kinda like when a Bonanza driver walks up and starts talking about how wonderful his plane is... everyone just leaves.

[RLCarter]

The male is screwed to the floor and the female (decorative side) in the carpet. It's best to have the belly open as there is stuff under the floor you don't want screws going through. Use a good commercial grade snap, I was able to find color matched snap that blend with the carpet. Put the ones in the floor first, put masking tape on the back of the carpet every where there is a snap, get the carpet positioned then press down over the snap leaving an indentation in the tape, I have 6 snaps per side (2 in the foot well, 2 at the rear and 2 in the middle), the J-Bars have a few more but it's fairly easy to figure out... All the snaps were laid out to be and inch and half from the edge of the carpet

[M20F-1968]

On 9/12/2019 at 10:44 AM, RLCarter said:

i put my carpet in with snaps, it was glued at one point and it was a royal pain in the ass to remove the glue. I put a box fan at the door and opened the baggage door for ventilation, what worked best for me was folding a shop towel into quarters dampened with Acetone and letting it sit in one spot which gave it time to soften the glue before it flashed off. I now know why the old glue was just left there for so long

I put my caret in with Velcro.  I used a 3M product that makes the surface (carpet and floor) sticky, and used a 3M Velcro product that has a different adhesive and is designed for aircraft.  It has worked great.  I can get part numbers if anyone would like them.

John Breda

[ArtVandelay]

I put my caret in with Velcro.  I used a 3M product that makes the surface (carpet and floor) sticky, and used a 3M Velcro product that has a different adhesive and is designed for aircraft.  It has worked great.  I can get part numbers if anyone would like them.
John Breda

I would, thanks.


Tom

[RLCarter]

My 172 uses Velcro, the problem is the backing on the carpet deteriorates (foam padding)

[M20F-1968]

The 3M product I used to help make the velcro stick is 3M "Primer 94".  It works well.

I was at the hangar yesterday but did not get the part number for the Velcro.  I will do that as well if anyone wants it.  It was a specific 3M velcro for aviation use (I assume

meaning the adhesive was different).

John Breda

[DualRatedFlyer]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:34 AM, RLCarter said:

The male is screwed to the floor and the female (decorative side) in the carpet. It's best to have the belly open as there is stuff under the floor you don't want screws going through. Use a good commercial grade snap, I was able to find color matched snap that blend with the carpet. Put the ones in the floor first, put masking tape on the back of the carpet every where there is a snap, get the carpet positioned then press down over the snap leaving an indentation in the tape, I have 6 snaps per side (2 in the foot well, 2 at the rear and 2 in the middle), the J-Bars have a few more but it's fairly easy to figure out... All the snaps were laid out to be and inch and half from the edge of the carpet

Can you link where you bought your snaps?

[RLCarter]

13 minutes ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Can you link where you bought your snaps?

I got them at a local upholstery supplier, I found the heavy duty at several places locally and some even had colored ones, just not the color I was looking for. 

[Oldguy]

So how far did my little patch, repair, new carpet, etc. take me?

About this far...

 

 

And how far back together has it gotten?

A little farther than this, but lessons learned are already spilling out. (more on that in the next post)

[ArtVandelay]

I thought that performing SB208 results in removal of all the fiberglass insulation?


Tom

[Oldguy]

Well, from the previous post, it appears we have a single ceiling panel in. Wrong! We have TWO ceiling panels in and one seat (pilot, of course).

The panel from Plane Plastics is excellent in manufacture quality, but not quite the exact same size as the one it replaces. A little bit longer here (not a problem - trim it) and a little bit shorter there (problem). And everyone else probably knows this, but do all of your trimming and sizing before hanging other parts like speakers, sonalerts, etc. on the panel. Why? That little speaker gets heavy when you hold it up with one hand and try to mark where to trim with the other. A trick I took from Bruce Jaeger is to cut the head off of a screw, put it in the hole where the panel will be mounted, and press the panel to mark the spot to drill. For spots like the sun visor mounts in the front, a splotch of lipstick will give a good target for the drill as well.

Find a friend - a really good friend - to help you mount the panels in the plane. Amazingly, even the ones I took out and put back in the same place seem to have changed size on me. The first new panel took about 2 hours to mount and connect all of the electrical wiring. The second was an original panel, and reinstalling it was about an hour.

I don't have a picture of the seat in the plane, but the two seats redone by Airtex look wonderful, and the one I sat in today when I flew the plane to the avionics shop to get the new IFD and remote transponder installed was as comfortable as the ones in my Lexus. I actually think I can look forward to the 3 hour or so trip to Lakeland now. I know my wife will enjoy them as I had to lower mine as low as possible since it had real padding on the seat bottom. Airtex provided me two cans of glue for those pieces of carpet where I needed to glue them, and they also threw in about 75 #6 screws and trim washers. 

Going to spend the next week or so finishing up the painting of the remaining plastic so once the plane gets back from the avionics shop, the carpet, sidewalls and the rest of the plastic will be going in. Would love to say I will be flying it down to the Mooney Summit in two weeks, but I think it is more likely we will be driving.

More as it gets done.

 

[Oldguy]

4 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I thought that performing SB208 results in removal of all the fiberglass insulation?


Tom

It actually does not call for the insulation to be removed or replaced unless there are signs of water leaks from the windows, damp insulation, or any signs of corrosion. Then it has a litany of steps to take to remediate any damage including replacement of insulation under the windows with foam insulation included in the specific kit from Mooney. In the case of my plane, the foam was installed as a preventative at one point in the life of the plane when it was flown by the B.F. Goodrich Avionics group.

Many (most?) planes have it pulled and replaced prior to actually needing it, and will do the entire plane when they do. I considered doing the rest of the interior, but had to call a stop at some place. It just happened to be before completing the replacement of the fiberglass insulation.

Here is a clip showing the location of the foam replacement pieces from the actual SB 20-208B: