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IO-360-A1A overhaul, what (else) do to?

chrixxer

By chrixxer
in Vintage Mooneys (pre-J models)

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chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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So I'm having my IO-360-A1A overhauled, the cam intake lobes are toast (1800 hours SMOH in 1991, by Firewall Forward). Almost certainly going to have the work done by a small shop on the field, who I've heard great things about (including from a local ASI who's personal airplane's engine was overhauled there), and I met with a guy who showed me his log books, he's had his engine overhauled by the shop three times, and made TBO each time. (Shop has been around for years, the owner is ex-Lycoming and has been overhauling engines for 50 years.)

While everything's pulled apart, what else makes sense to do? Most of my accessories are new or have been freshly attended to: Fuel servo and mechanical fuel pump (less than a year), mags IRAN'd and serviced (ditto), new wiring harness (10 months ago). Alternator was rebuilt in 2003. No idea on the vacuum pump (still digitizing and organizing logs), which, I was hoping to at least swap in the AV-30s for now, and go full glass eventually, but, between canine chemo and a somewhat earlier than anticipated rebuild, the "new cockpit" is delayed indefinitely.

Prop governor? (The Hartzell "Top Prop" was new in December 2016, has about 300 hours on it.) I can't find anything in the logs to even identify which governor it is, or that it's ever been serviced (but again, still digitizing). Does it make sense to overhaul? Or spend $2500ish on the PCU 5000? (When I took the plane offline, it wasn't making full power on take-off, I was seeing maybe 2640 at 100' MSL. And it has a tendency to very slightly overspeed (2710-2720) for a second or two on level-off, if climbing with the prop full forward and not pulled back before leveling off - don't know if that's normal. I know I never would have noticed it without the JPI throwing a red RPM indicator in my face (it's imperceptible on the mechanical tach).)

Assuming I should change the battery. A tender is like $170, a new Concorde is, what, $300? I can't find a battery entry more recent than 2009 in the logbooks, but I know the battery is newer than that.

I'm going to go with factory new cylinders, and have Ly-Con "port" them (flow matched and balanced); Ron had that done on the overhauled cylinders he had installed in 2011, and this IO-360-A1A was a lot smoother than the one in my old E. $1,200, seems worth doing.

What else should I think about? Rajay turbo normalization? ;)  

jetdriven Grand Master

jetdriven

Posted
Posted (edited)

Anything that had oil in it needs to be disassembled if possible, and flushed. New hoses.

 

also post pics of the cam and lifters.  Curious. 

Edited by jetdriven
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chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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9 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

New throttle, prop and mixture cables/controls.  

Good idea. OMG, I'd love to get rid of the quadrant, don't think that's in the cards, though.

chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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45 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

Lord mounts and how old is the exhaust?  Some people have the motor mounts stripped and looked at.  I think Lasar does that.

Will look at the mounts. Not sure on the exhaust. Don't see anything obvious (need to finish this log book review process...!)

chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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46 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

It’s also a good time to address the baffles since you have some down time.

Baffles were redone about a year ago, and are in good shape.

67 m20F chump Rising Star

67 m20F chump

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Dawley Aitcraft Exhaust can overhaul what you have.  If that muffler has time on it you will be getting the labor for free to swap it now.  Otherwise you pay to put it on the used part then pay to remove and replace sooner because you were saving money.

 

When I did one engine on my Baron I didn’t do the exhaust.  It was a mistake.  I swapped it out not long after but the longer it goes the harder it gets.  The nuts and studs erode.

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Tcraft938 Collaborator

Tcraft938

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Just had my engine zero times and ran on the plane for the first time this week. It was highly recommended to have the oil cooler overhauled or replaced with new. Oil lines replace unless new then flush them real well and have governor overhauled. Dont want any old crud going in fresh engine. New mounts are recommended as well. Read Don Maxwell's article on shimming then engine properly. I learned quickly anything that is normally hard to get at, take care of it now. Strip engine mount search for cracks and service bulletins done for gussets, prime and paint. Control cables and wiring that looks fine will definitely break 15 minutes after you get everything installed.  Happened to my cowl flap cable. 

I'm not an AP/IA simply sharing how I was advised. Your mileage may vary. 

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Andy95W Grand Master

Andy95W

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The recommended way to install the engine is to remove the engine mount, mount the engine to it, then bolt the mount back onto the firewall.

While the mount is off, strip the paint, inspect the steel mount, and paint it.  If you don't paint the mount when it's off, you'll always notice your pretty engine on your tired and rusty engine mount.

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bgpilot1 Community Regular

bgpilot1

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May want to consider having your crankshaft dynamically balanced.  When I had the engine overhauled in my M20F a few years ago, it seemed to make a difference.

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SantosDumont Rising Star

SantosDumont

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On 9/5/2019 at 1:35 PM, chrixxer said:

swap in the AV-30s for now

I didn't think the AV-30s were certified yet?  Hoping to ditch my AI for an AV-30.  I came out of KLPC a few months ago through a layer and when I leveled off my AI was stuck in a climbing attitude.  Shook the plane around and it seemed to come back, but now it's not something that I trust in IMC, and it's the only vacuum instrument I have.

chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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2 minutes ago, SantosDumont said:

I didn't think the AV-30s were certified yet?  Hoping to ditch my AI for an AV-30.  I came out of KLPC a few months ago through a layer and when I leveled off my AI was stuck in a climbing attitude.  Shook the plane around and it seemed to come back, but now it's not something that I trust in IMC, and it's the only vacuum instrument I have.

They're not, but they will be "real soon now." Between the AV-30 and the G5, I kinda prefer the AV-30, don't have to hack up my panel and they blend better (and cheaper install without a magnetometer, though in that configuration you'd still have to reset the DG periodically to the whiskey compass). But it'd be a stop-gap thing anyway, pending full glass.

SantosDumont Rising Star

SantosDumont

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15 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

They're not, but they will be "real soon now." Between the AV-30 and the G5, I kinda prefer the AV-30, don't have to hack up my panel and they blend better (and cheaper install without a magnetometer, though in that configuration you'd still have to reset the DG periodically to the whiskey compass). But it'd be a stop-gap thing anyway, pending full glass.

Yeah.  I already have a slaved HSI, so I just really want it to be an AI and ditch my vacuum.  The G5 makes me upgrade to WAAS, which puts me on the path to a $20k panel upgrade.  I see my options as $2k AV30 + $2k Tailbeacon, or $15k GNX375 + $5k 2x G5s.

Ragsf15e Grand Master

Ragsf15e

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2 hours ago, SantosDumont said:

Yeah.  I already have a slaved HSI, so I just really want it to be an AI and ditch my vacuum.  The G5 makes me upgrade to WAAS, which puts me on the path to a $20k panel upgrade.  I see my options as $2k AV30 + $2k Tailbeacon, or $15k GNX375 + $5k 2x G5s.

The two G5s are about $5k in parts.  Close to double that for an installed system with 2 x G5s.  No matter what, it hurts.

Stephen Mentor

Stephen

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I just got my plane back from Jewell today. Consider overhauling the fuel delivery components if they haven't been touched in a long time. 

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chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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Okay, finishing my due diligence. In addition to the ASI and an A&P on the field, I just got off the phone with a customer of the local shop that has had an AEO320, an O360, and an O290 done by the shop and couldn't stop enthusing; and a tailwheel instructor on the field who has been teaching in the same Citabria since the 1960s and has had this shop rebuild the O235 in it multiple times, once passing 3,000 hours SMOH, another time past 3,700 hours. "Guy on the field" FTW. 

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jetdriven Grand Master

jetdriven

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1 hour ago, chrixxer said:

Okay, finishing my due diligence. In addition to the ASI and an A&P on the field, I just got off the phone with a customer of the local shop that has had an AEO320, an O360, and an O290 done by the shop and couldn't stop enthusing; and a tailwheel instructor on the field who has been teaching in the same Citabria since the 1960s and has had this shop rebuild the O235 in it multiple times, once passing 3,000 hours SMOH, another time past 3,700 hours. "Guy on the field" FTW. 

Does this guy on the field know about the ridiculous problems we have with IO-360s and camshafts and lifters? It seems that roller lifters from the factory motor or the DLC coated lifters that they sell new from Lycoming  brand new will cure this problem, but reground lifters and camshaft ain’t gonna cut it. There are several guys on this board that are on their third engine now because of this kind of stuff

Stephen Mentor

Stephen

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Does this guy on the field know about the ridiculous problems we have with IO-360s and camshafts and lifters? It seems that roller lifters from the factory motor or the DLC coated lifters that they sell new from Lycoming  brand new will cure this problem, but reground lifters and camshaft ain’t gonna cut it. There are several guys on this board that are on their third engine now because of this kind of stuff

Jewell put in DLC on mine. I would recommend David to anyone if you haven't gotten an overhaul shop yet. 

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