thinking of selling

[TheTurtle]

Been doing some soul searching and think it's time to let the mooney go.  Its a traveling bird and since my wife wont fly its pretty hard to justify to myself. I almost never have 3 people including me and even rarer to have 4.  The whole certification thing is really breaking my balls too.  I got an offer to go in with a buddy of mine on some experimental and I think it fits my style, budget and mission better.  I like working on my own stuff and I dont need to pay some grumpy old man to babysit me and sign a book.  

My engine is at TBO and although its 76-78 on comps and gets flown regularly I know that is going to hit the price hard.  Also no GPS panel.  So I'm not sure if I should just dump it for what I can get or since the tiedown and insurance isnt what kills me just keep it forever and in another 400hours or so rebuild the engine.  And plod along with 1960s avionics because theres no way I'm paying somebody to install glass on top of the overpriced certified gear.

Tough call, I was thinking this would be my forever plane and you can't beat the mooney community.  the wife and I with another couple going places was what I had in my head when I bought it.  But it's actually me and a buddy on a 15minute flight to get gas just to say we went flying.  And that buddy just died of cancer so now its me doing laps in the pattern to keep the oil moving every week.  I dont really need 4 seats 98% of the time.  But that few times I needed them it was sure nice having them.

  

[RogueOne]

Sorry about your friend Turtle.  That sucks.  My wife used to be a non-flyer, but she is really quite good now.  No hope there huh?  Took a couple years to get my wife not catatonic...

I won’t weigh in on your decision.  That is yours to make.  I personally would not go Experimental over a certified Mooney, but I am not even close to your wrenching.

Don’t rush into your decision.

[TheTurtle]

Just now, RogueOne said:

Sorry about your friend Turtle.  That sucks.  My wife used to be a non-flyer, but she is really quite good now.  No hope there huh?  Took a couple years to get my wife not catatonic...

I won’t weigh in on your decision.  That is yours to make.  I personally would not go Experimental over a certified Mooney, but I am not even close to your wrenching.

Don’t rush into your decision.

Yea sucks.  He was my CFI/CFII as well.  we got close over the years and it all went south quickly for him.  Funeral next week.  Go to the doctor people!!  (says the guy who never goes to the doctor)

Ive had the plane for about 3 years.  maybe 4.  In the last year she has hinted that at some point on a perfect day when the stars align and hell has frozen over shell do a 15 minute hop over to the airport near her family.  That hasnt happened yet.  The other issue is she has tried to get some other people to go as well so she would have a real reason to fly but none of her friends are in to it either.  So even if I get rid of the mooney and just have 2 seats and one day when those stars align we'll be ok since nobody else wants to go anyway...

Ive been kicking this around for a few months now because im a keeper.  I never get rid of stuff once I buy it. I just keep stacking up more toys   this one just isnt bringing me the joy it should anymore.

I threw it on barnstormers with a free 100 character ad to see if there are any bites at my dump it price of 40k.

[RogueOne]

Sounds like you are ready.  Good luck on your sale Turtle.

[DXB]

So sorry for you loss, and good luck with the sale.   Glad you're able to stay in aviation on the experimental side. Maybe that's the right fit for you with a good partner.  I hope the wife comes around on flying in the new bird once you have settled into it.  

[jaylw314]

Sad to hear about your partner in crime.  

It's hard to imagine your wife will ever change opinions on flying in the future in a plane with "EXPERIMENTAL" stenciled on the door...

I count myself lucky to be married to someone willing to fly with me, and I will admit if she did not, I probably wouldn't have a plane or even a ticket.  Have you ever tried selling her on flying lessons?  For some people, it's the whole control thing, and that might be a foot in the door...

[Eight8Victor]

Turtle, we really are but caretakers to these machines for a season. Your Mooney chapter may be ending but there is someone out there who will take over and care for your bird as you did when the baton was passed to you. I have thought about doing the experimental thing myself as I love to turn wrenches and have an inclination for anything mechanical. When the time is right, you will know.

My condolences regarding the loss of your friend. In time you will be able to smile when you remember some of the adventures you shared flying in your Mooney. My CFI died of cancer too. He was very health conscious and in shape and it shouldn't have happened to him. I still talk to him when I fly and I can hear jim in my head, giving me instruction....and it makes me smile.

Best wishes,

Steve

[takair]

Turtle, Sorry for the loss of your friend.  That kind of thing really makes one think things over, but it’s a process.  Perhaps hold off on selling for a while after the funeral.  It’s can be hard to make a good decision when mourning a friend.  Think of what your friend might want you to do...keep flying?  You may find that it’s not bad to fly alone once in a while in the Mooney.  My wife too is not an avid flyer.  I’m lucky she goes once or twice a year.  That said, i stopped asking her and suddenly she volunteered for two short beach trips in two weeks.  Maybe see if you can meet up with some Mooneyspacers for lunch on occasion....it’s a good way to compare notes.  Hang in there.

[Kmac]

If my wife didn't like to fly I would not own my Mooney either.  Some people will just never get into flying while it seems like others can be coaxed into doing it for a reward.  My aunt doesn't like to fly but she loves to go the shore so she'll fly there with my uncle in 35 minutes instead of driving 3 hours.  I am lucky my wife loves to fly, she loves to take the long trips and the $75 hamburger runs...

I see you are in SoCal...  Have you offered to take your wife to Catalina Island or maybe Monterey or even the Grand Canyon.  I don't know your wife but maybe you can coax her into going for the reward of a great destination.

If she will never like flying I think you are on the right track selling and getting a two seater...

[Dream to fly]

Sorry for your loss. I have been thinking about the same thing you are but I wondered if I pulled the type certificate off and made my Mooney experimental what would happen. Besides losing valve on a plane I am 80k+ upside down what else would be the issue?


Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

[Vance Harral]

16 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

I have been thinking about the same thing you are but I wondered if I pulled the type certificate off and made my Mooney experimental what would happen. Besides losing valve on a plane I am 80k+ upside down what else would be the issue?

Unfortunately, you can't convert a certified airplane to an experimental-amateur-built type certificate, which is probably what you meant by making your Mooney "experimental".  An E-AB type certificate allows broad freedom to fly the airplane, as you see the RV/Kitfox/etc. crowd enjoying, but requires you actually build the airplane.

With a lot of hassle and paperwork, you could probably convert your Mooney to some other type certificate which would allow you the same broad maintenance leeway as E-AB, e.g. experimental-exhibition, or restricted.  But it would severely limit the type of legal flying you can perform.  You wouldn't be able to just jump in the airplane and go for a $100 hamburger run anymore.

More info here: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/

[Tom]

18 hours ago, TheTurtle said:

Been doing some soul searching and think it's time to let the mooney go.  Its a traveling bird and since my wife wont fly its pretty hard to justify to myself... The whole certification thing is really breaking my balls too... I like working on my own stuff and I dont need to pay some grumpy old man to babysit me and sign a book.  

My engine is at TBO and although its 76-78 on comps and gets flown regularly I know that is going to hit the price hard.  Also no GPS panel.  So I'm not sure if I should just dump it for what I can get or since the tiedown and insurance isnt what kills me just keep it forever and in another 400hours or so rebuild the engine.  And plod along with 1960s avionics because theres no way I'm paying somebody to install glass on top of the overpriced certified gear.

Tough call, I was thinking this would be my forever plane and you can't beat the mooney community.  the wife and I with another couple going places was what I had in my head when I bought it.  But it's actually me and a buddy on a 15minute flight to get gas just to say we went flying.  And that buddy just died of cancer so now its me doing laps in the pattern to keep the oil moving every week.  I dont really need 4 seats 98% of the time.  But that few times I needed them it was sure nice having them.

  

First, I'm sorry about your friend. 

Do recall the old wisdom that suggests not to make major decisions under times of stress (if you can avoid it).  While long the subject in the arts, modern research finds that during times of persistent stress colors literally seem less bright...the things that normally gives us, for example, a 9/10 on the pleasure scale...end up only providing a 5/10 on the pleasure scale.  It's not that the nature of the thing changed, rather it's the effect of stress on our perception.  WHILE this is occurring, so too do you start to look at things differently, calculating what you do/don't like, finding reasons to not like what you used to love, seeking alternatives that offer the allure of newnewss that, while refreshing, ends up being old.  But when the stress abates...if you're a "keeper" by nature...you might be more prone to regretting the Mooney sale.

I must say that I wish you had an IA whom you could owner-assist everything with.  I started in homebuilts and went certified because...it's less expensive.  A nice RV costs ~50% more than my Mooney, burns the same fuel, is cramped inside, and only has 2 seats.  I now own several planes in rental in addition to my Mooney.  2 seaters are not appreciably less expensive to maintain or operate (unless Rotax powered, but who needs glass cockpit in a Rotax 2 seater).  FWIW the only time I see people in the back seats of planes are folks in training or the occasional (rare) family, or site-seeing tours.  Back seats are for dogs, luggage, and for stretching out. 

As to the panel, now that G5 and Dynon is on the scene, the gap between certified and experimental is really narrow.  If you had a good IA that would owner-assist you could build a panel.  I do all my own wrenching such that my annual IA bill is ~$1,000.  For sure the occasional certified part can be brutal, but I saved a lot vs buying an RV.

Also, if you decide to keep the Mooney, review the past Primary Non Commercial (PNC) initiative that was supposed to be part of the Part 23 re-write a couple years ago.  Rumor has it that the PNC initiative is not completely dead, rather, it's inevitable at some point (lest the GA fleet continue to shrink).  If not familiar, PNC would allow you to convert your Mooney to "owner maintenance" similar to the Canadian system.  But, again, with a good IA who isn't afraid of his own shadow and likes to operate to the full extent of his ticket...you can do practically as much on your Mooney as an experimental (many experimental folks self-limit their FWF work anyway).

Best of luck in your decision.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Tom

[Niko182]

Personally, I'd say sell it and get an experimental. An RV7 or 8 will cruise faster on the same gas, and be overall way cheaper to own. you can have a full g3x suite and ads-b for 20k installed and fly the hell out of the plane and it will overall be way more affordable. duel electronic ignition is also a nice touch.
Also sorry about ron. He was overall a great guy, and he was the one that got me my PPL and signed off in the Mooney. may he rest in piece.

[M20F]

23 hours ago, TheTurtle said:

 I got an offer to go in with a buddy of mine on some experimental and I think it fits my style, budget and mission better.  

Think you got your answer

[salty]

This has already been touched on, but I wanted to make it clear. You can’t wrench on an experimental that you didn’t build any more legally than you can a certified aircraft. 

[M20F]

2 minutes ago, salty said:

This has already been touched on, but I wanted to make it clear. You can’t wrench on an experimental that you didn’t build any more legally than you can a certified aircraft. 

Labor isn’t the problem in GA, parts are the problem in GA.  Compare the cost of an experimental panel (hardware + install) versus a certified panel. 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, salty said:

This has already been touched on, but I wanted to make it clear. You can’t wrench on an experimental that you didn’t build any more legally than you can a certified aircraft. 

Where is that written?  The only thing the new owner can't do is the yearly Condition Inspection (comparable to an Annual).  That has to be done by an A&P or by the builder.  Everything else is fair game, or at least that's what I was taught.

[kortopates]

12 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Where is that written?  The only thing the new owner can't do is the yearly Condition Inspection (comparable to an Annual).  That has to be done by an A&P or by the builder.  Everything else is fair game, or at least that's what I was taught.

Good point, I believe your right. 91.327 limits the condition inspection to certificated repairman, or the other usual suspects A&P and repair station. But the owner can perform maintenance and make log book entries.

[FloridaMan]

You should get rid of the wife instead

Edited July 25, 2019 by FloridaMan

[bdserv]

On 7/23/2019 at 10:05 PM, salty said:

This has already been touched on, but I wanted to make it clear. You can’t wrench on an experimental that you didn’t build any more legally than you can a certified aircraft. 

Untrue.  The only thing you cannot do if you don't hold the repairman certificate for that particular aircraft is the condition inspection [but any A&P can sign it off - you do not need an IA].

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aircraft-building/intro-to-aircraft-building/frequently-asked-questions/condition-inspection

Who can maintain a Homebuilt?
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to amateur-built airplanes. Therefore, any maintenance on an experimental airplane can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection previously discussed). Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself.

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by bdserv