allsmiles vs. All American (html corrected)

[b65cuda]

Hey everyone,

Making my first post as a new member. I have been wanting to buy an airplane for a long time now, but always thought it would be too expensive to own. The only rentals anywhere near me are from a "school", so you can't carry pax, fly outside their short approved list of airports, or keep a plane overnight. Oh, and rental is up to $139 for a warrior! 

I am deployed right now and have spent a lot if time reading and re-reading every bit of study material for my Inst rating. I also decided I want to do it in my own aircraft so now I am reading and learning everything I can find on Mooneys. I've been fasinated with them every since I saw my first one. 

I'm glad I stumbled across this forum. If there is one thing I am for shure of right now, it's that I will be calling and visiting the guys at AAA as soon as I return to the states. Lucky for me they are only a few hour drive. It always looks like they have a good selection of quality aircraft when I check their inventory, and I wish I was home now. I can't decide between a C,E or F,they would all fit my mission well, but I hope at the end of September I can visit and they have something sitting there calling my name.

As someone new, I think even without Jimmy or David defending their side, there are so many buyers satisfied with their experience at AAA, I can't imagine going anywere else for my first purchase. Can't wait to work with those guys soon, and experience it for myself.

I've never been a forum kind of person, but reading through various post, I see how helpful everyone here at mooneyspace is. It's nice to know I will have somewhere to go when I have questions or need help. Isn't there a fly-in on Oct? Maybe I be one of the newest mooney owners there and will get to meet some of you.

Tony

[FlyDave]

Hey allsmiles,

I think this backfired on you.

[alex]

That was awesome!  Better than an episode of  the Peoples Court...and the next litigant, ta da dah...

[jax88]

Life's lessons, Texas Hill Country style.  Gotta love the simplicity of calling 'em like you see 'em.

[Cruiser]

I hear a disgruntaled almost owner complaining that the broker screwed him, I also hear a broker saying some potential customers are not worth the bother.

There seems to be some blame to be shared by both sides, especially if the buyer was moving forward with paperwork, financing etc. with AAA assistance. (I didn't see in any of Mr. Garrision's messages were he disputed that)

If AAA wants to only deal with "easy" transactions they should be up front enough to say so. It sounds like AAA went for the bird in the hand rather than the bird in the bush and dumped Mr. Kousoulis for any easier deal.

As for allsmiles, Mr. Kousoulis. You sound like a very, very hard person to deal with and you can definitely carry a grugde, six years and you STILL are angry. Move on, get some consuling, it is not worth it. AAA is a business, like all businesses they must look out for their best interests and try to keep their customers happy. From the sounds of it, there are many happy customers here supporting them.

Why don't both sides agree to drop it and not talk about this again. Everyone will be better off.

[jelswick]

I hadn't seen Jimmie respond until many, many grenades were lobbed at him and his business, so I for one appreciated seeing him showing patience, restraint and then needing to finally respond.  I sold aircraft for 6 years and can tell you 98% of customers were absolutely wonderful to deal with, became friends sending back pictures of mods they did to their birds, stopping in when flying past or to Columbus, just a wonderful experience.  But out of all of those buyers, two that really stood out and scr_wed us and our customers.  You have to balance patience with the buyer who is making a very large purchase for most of our incomes with the fact your serving an owner too and two months after the start of the process with other buyers ready to go, the owners would be hopping mad and understandably so.  No slam at AllSmiles, everyone's situation is different and he may have had extenuating circumstances, but hearing things like stopped payment checks without a validated reason for it, etc. wouldn't lead to trying to take care of him to the exclusion of taking care of the current owner.  Just my two cents...

[jelswick]

And I love Jose's posts.  He has quite a practical outlook that I think is healthy.  Consider your experience an education so that you don't step in the same (what you believe was a) pothole twice and move on.  There will always be new potholes to find and step in.  Carrying a grudge rather than the lesson just keeps you bitter going forward and life is too short for that!

[Piloto]

If you think Jimmy did anything wrong, would you buy a plane from Mr. Obama? After all he has a nice B747 that he uses for his vacation trips to Hawaii and to Europe to mingle with people that are out of his class. All of these on tax payer money. No wonder we are such in debt. And he dare to complain on CEOs that use smaller jet planes paying their own fuel. Why can't he fly on Jet Blue, rent a car from Budget and stay at La Quinta and mingle with his own kind. To save even more money next time he comes to FLL he can stay at my home. I will give him a free ride on my Mooney to Key West  have lunch at Sloppy Joe and mingle with his own kind. Jimmy I think you should contact Mr Obama and offer him a deal on a fleet of Mooneys so he can pay the federal debt. But hurry up I heard that Coy J. is working on it.

José  

[FlyFstr]

Re: Why can't he fly on Jet Blue, rent a car from Budget and stay at La Quinta and mingle with his own kind.

It would even be better if he just stayed at home and shut up. 

 

[DaV8or]

I visited AAA last year when I was shopping for Mooneys in TX. I never met Jimmy, but I did meet David and he showed me some planes they had in my budget. My impression of the outfit and David was that they were straight forward and honest. The pricing on their planes at the time wasn't even that much over private sales either. I did not buy a plane from them only because they really didn't have anything that quite fit my budget or my needs. Had they had the perfect plane at the right price, I would have no problems buying from them.

The short synopsis of this sad tale between Allsmiles and AAA is, money talks and bullshit walks. Two canceled checks??!! I would have been done with this deal after the stop payment. It is unreasonable to expect a sales outfit to keep a product on hold indefinitely with no deposit. With no money down, the plane is still for sale to anybody. I see no wrong doing by AAA.

[fantom]

Quote: DaV8or

 Two canceled checks??!! I would have been done with this deal after the stop payment......I see no wrong doing by AAA.

[PTK]

I will express only these last thoughts and then I will take the advice of some to totally drop this once and for all. As I have said before this has been long forgotten on my part.  It somehow came up now and snowballed, because there was discussion about escrow agents, title companies and such.  I'm sorry for taking a lower road and having played a role in this unpleasant exchange.

Never ever did I convey to AAA that I will not be purchasing the aircraft.  There were never any issues with deposit check other than my accountant wanting things done a certain way.  Never did I convey to AAA anything regarding IRS!!  This is laughable! I did inform them that I need to follow the advice of my accountant and attorney who were helping me properly structure the purchase.  I don't think this is unusual in any way shape or form.  These were not AAA's decisions to make nor did I ever request their permission.  And finally the time I took is comensurate with the sheer size of the intended acquisition.  I did not back out of the purchase.  AAA had plenty of opportunity to back out earlier if they so desired.  They chose to back out at the very last hour.

The extent of their decision making was whether to sell the airplane to me or not.  They took it upon themselves in the last minute to just drop me, and subsequently ignore me as if I didn't exist!  This was a bad decision with less than stellar consequences.  I wish things were different.  I really really do.  Unfortunately due to circumstances beyond my comtrol and in AAA's full control, they weren't.  So we move on!

This is officially done as far as I'm concerned.

[jetdriven]

well does it really take 4 months to buy an airplane?

[triple8s]

I guess lots of people go window shopping with only a dream in their pockets, take the dealer/broker through all the motions, right up till the very end never having financing arranged. It would seem pretty silly to even look till you had $$ in hand, it's the way our government operates, spend now and worry about how to pay for it later. Bad thing is I dont think they do much worrying till election time.

[GeorgePerry]

I think it’s clear based on the totality of the discussions that AAA is a reputable, well thought of business.  It’s too bad that one disgruntled person can drag a business owner through the mud in such a public way when it’s not deserved.

There have been other less reputable businesses discussed on this forum that weren’t as well defended by previous customers.  The web is a great tool.  The truth can often be derived from aggregate opinion. 

After reading this tread and Jimmy’s measured response, I would be comfortable doing business with them.

 

[Lood]

A friend of mine always likes to say: "Talk is cheap, but money buys the whiskey."

[Barry]

... sounds like "buyers remorse" ... but before the "buy" ...

[fantom]

...or in this case, "Money talks and BS walks" without the plane.

[RJBrown]

This whole thread sounds like too much piling on and a little misplaced "hero" worship.

Quote: jgarrison

  My guess is that this is also going to bring out several others who are going to have something to contribute to the negative aspect of dealers/brokers in general and AAA in specific.  I know who some of them are, others not so much.  Some I have a response for, as I know who they are and what the issue is.  In response to one, I will go ahead and just state that I will not negotiate offers that are wholesale or below, even if you are just using it as your starting point – if you get your feelings hurt because of that, then I am sorry. Sincerely, Jimmy Garrison

[fantom]

Quote: RJBrown

 

[jwilkins]

I bought my second and current Mooney from Jimmy. I called him without knowing him, told him what I wanted, and a few weeks later he called back with exactly what I needed. I found him to be professional and fair. I'll buy my next Mooney from him with absolutely no hesitation if he has one I want at a fair market price. There are few businesses that do not have soem disgruntled past customers. Personally I would have droppped this guy forever when he put the stop payment on the second check. Jimmy apparently has a lot more patience than I do. Anyone who is still obsessed after six years has significant issues. My analysis is that Jimmy is lucky he decided to cut his losses and take another offer.  Returning the deposit minus direct expenses is an indication of a honorable businessman. 

Jim

 

[DonMuncy]

I've been keeping count. We now have 2 people saying Jimmy is a lying thief and 27 saying he is a honest, straightforward square shooter. Knowing the general tendency of forum hangers-on to pile on when a bad guy is being criticized, I think that speaks volumes for Jimmy's character.

Don

[drapo]

Quote: DonMuncy

I've been keeping count. We now have 2 people saying Jimmy is a lying thief and 27 saying he is a honest, straightforward square shooter. Knowing the general tendency of forum hangers-on to pile on when a bad guy is being criticized, I think that speaks volumes for Jimmy's character.

Don

[John Pleisse]

I own an A/C that passed through All American's hands 3 times, at one point in ownership of a family member of Jimmy's (youth-time building-according to Jimmy). The gentleman who purchased the airplane prior to me (from AAA) ended up having to top the engine immediately. He wasn't despondent, but rolled the dice on a 1200 engine. Fast forward 11 years later and I tried to sell the same plane to Jimmy. Now, while any shrewd broker would love to get his hands on a plane as improved as mine, Jimmy invested in SW airfare, his ferry pilot, a night in a local hotel and two tanks of fuel for FDK to SAT. Additionally, he agreed to take the plane 1 day before it was to fall out of annual. I didn't give it away and he was going to make money. I was upgrading to an A36 and two planes went sour in pre-buy...really sour...like a lot of needless expense. I came to San Antonio and took my plane back three weeks later...no questions asked, as both an angry seller and an angry, failed buyer. Jimmy didn't ask for a dime of his expenses back, which I put in the $750 range, maybe more. Jimmy rolled the dice just like you and I do when we buy.

2 lessons learned......First, brokers have an important roll buying and selling (I learned the hard way). Second, Jimmy's expertise is knowing a good plane and a good deal. Take it for what it is. Lighten up. He's fair and wants to make a buck. I wouldn't hesitate to buy or sell with him again. And he knows it, which is why he is so good at what he does.

And Jimmy, please don't ask for the expense reimbursement at this juncture........You don't have to...you are shrewd enough to know we'll meet again, probably sooner than later.

[RJBrown]

Quote: jwilkins

  Returning the deposit minus direct expenses is an indication of a honorable businessman. 

Jim