Future of Mooney

[AlexLev]

I mean just go to the Cirrus web site: https://cirrusaircraft.com and then go to https://www.mooney.com and see, just by looking at the web site - which plane you may want to buy.

Cirrus has very superior marketing. The Mooney site has a picture of some old guy with a mustache...

Edited February 24, 2019 by AlexLev

[toto]

At the same time, Mooney does not seem to be lacking confidence.  It seems every GA magazine out there has at least one full-page ad from Mooney touting their new Ovation/Ultra models (often in the most high-profile locations, like the back cover).  I don't know whether the advertising blitz is converting a lot of customers, but there's clearly some commitment to making a real run at this.

[toto]

1 hour ago, bonal said:

Modern doesn't always look better in fact in most cases IMHO vintage looks much more appealing.

Yeah, this is all super-subjective.  I loved the Acclaim paint scheme, which I thought was very modern and helped make the M20 look more like a "serious" new plane than the white composite alternatives.  (The white plastic looks kind of cheap to me - if I knew nothing about aircraft, I might assume a Cirrus was a trainer.)  But I don't love the current retro Ovation/Ultra look, which seems like a hat-tip to a 1960's heyday.

TBH, the whole 242KT Acclaim campaign was what I wanted to see from Mooney.  A "catch us if you can" approach that put performance first, backed up by real data.  That's where Mooney has always been the badass alternative.  If you want the fancy seats and a pilot-side door, that's cool - we'll go ahead and start the appetizers while we wait for you to arrive.

[peevee]

56 minutes ago, AlexLev said:

I mean just go to the Cirrus web site: https://cirrusaircraft.com and then go to https://www.mooney.com and see, just by looking at the web site - which plane you may want to buy.

Cirrus has very superior marketing. The Mooney site has a picture of some old guy with a mustache...

I think cirrus does a better job at reaching non pilots. Once you're in the cirrus system the ENTIRE system is designed to sell airplanes. You see an ad and think , hey I can do that. You go to a cirrus training center and train in a cirrus with cirrus standardized instructor pilots, then you buy a sr20, then you buy a sr22 then maybe a turbo, then a sf50. All along the way with CSIPs or at the cirrus factory center in knoxville. They have a very smooth flow through program to attract new pilots and keep them in the system. It's a good product and it's well supported. Why would I complain about 195 knots true at 15.5 GPH with a phenomenal panel and a comfortable interior? They're very good traveling airplanes and passengers love them. Every decision is made to sell airplanes from how many csips and cscs to where to allow them to the embark program.

 

Cirrus seems to attract the younger tech savvy crowd as well. Not sure how they do that.

 

Also since mooney got bought by the chinese it's never a white guy with a mustache in magazine ads, it's always an asian guy with an attractive asian lady carrying a bunch of shopping bags. #noracist #kindaracist

Edited February 24, 2019 by peevee

[CaptainAB]

To borrow from Steve Jobs I think it’s accurate to say, the marketing folks ran Mooney into the ground. The product guys built Cirrus into a giant.

[glbtrottr]

[mention=7683]glbtrottr[/mention], I was tracking right up to the point where you said the Mooney isn't sexy compared to the flying Clorox bottle.  You lost me there.  I'm not anti-Cirrus, but to my eye at least sexiness and performance are the two areas where Mooney has Cirrus beat hands down.  Damn, Mooneys and particularly modern Mooneys are good looking airplanes.   Jim   

 

 Jim, Some people like blondes, others brunettes and others Asians, Hispanics, you name it. I consider marketshare a function of popularity as measured by outcome in a statistical display, not accounting for outliers or directional vector.

 

14.

 

Millions voted for a politician in the last election who argued for something America stood for for decades. Huh? That’s straight up breadlines. At a time when Mooney thrived, the notion of socialism was sacrilege. “A Mooney for every man and woman” sounds great!

 

Despite the economics in his politics, people found That politician’s pitch sexy. How we will pay for free education when teachers in California make over 100k is beyond me; how doctors who have to potentially repay an average $300k-400k in educational loans through wages turns to free healthcare makes anyone with politicians who offer free everything and their arithmetic scratch their head, but That politician’s popularity can’t be denied. And neither can the popularity of the Clorox bottle for the same price.

 

I own a Mooney and have for nearly two decades, not a Clorox bottle.

 

But, we on this board, while we find our Mooney’s efficient and sexy in our own way, are a blast of the past. Chinese, Arab, French or Russian money trying to genuinely capture the dreams of flight will just not overcome the baggage of Mooney.

 

 

That’s Mooney right there, just like Robert De Niro carrying baggage in the mission.

 

We are nostalgics. We enjoy a fast and efficient airframe created 40 years ago without substantial innovation to make us wonder in a modern world. Many of us wear used, hand me down jeans bought at a discount. $60k, $100k, 300k jeans, but used speed jeans nonetheless. A Practical bunch we are. We, like 300 Spartans, keep the factory afloat with our parts purchases, a few of us occasionally upgrading to a new model, and some hopeful investor who wants to catch a little bit of that dream of flight for the masses. The numbers are not in our favor. The Marine Corps taught me to enjoy the taste of overwhelming odds with inferior gear compared to what the Navy Team rustpickers got, but we prodded forward. But Mooney isn’t the Marine Corps, and I don’t believe many involved have a genuine passion to divest themselves of baggage.

 

350 / 14. Those are the numbers we face.

 

Many loved the OV10 Bronco; some are even getting overhauled for awesome work in drug interdiction.

 

It isn’t sexy. Politicians will never let the program take off.

 

The p51 was an awesome airplane that may still have relevance today.

 

Politicians will not allow it to come back, and many believe, probably rightly so, that there are alternatives.

 

Our A10 uglybeast...my insides giggle when I hear the whistle of those engines nearby, turning into outright laughter when I hear those guns go off.

 

The lines of a D17S just make me smile.

 

So does my Mooney. The factory sold 14 last year, and I don’t see any marketing geniuses looking to radically move the needle. Someone mentioned the idea of Mooney being the low cost provider alternative to Clorox bottle. Sure. But the ego of anyone who gets involved with Mooney will rarely listen to reason or redirect money to achieve success- not yet. If the latest investor is any indication, a second door was the genius marketing idea. And that’s it. The future of Mooney- every aircraft company who’s thought about acquiring it recently passed. All attempts to make a profit from investment have been mediocre to failures when it comes to Mooney. There you go...

 

 

 

[David_H]

When a company is acquired or sold, it's generally bad for both the product and the company's local employees. This seems to be true regardless of what product the company manufactures.

Every acquisition has winners and losers. However, the buyer and seller are only two of the many parties involved. They generally both come out ahead. The company's employees, suppliers, and customers are also party to the acquisition process... but aren't a part of the negotiations.

 

[toto]

So..... Since we all have a vested interest in the future of Mooney, what can/should we do as a community to help ensure the best possible outcome for the company?

[N9201A]

Also since mooney got bought by the chinese it's never a white guy with a mustache in magazine ads, it's always an asian guy with an attractive asian lady carrying a bunch of shopping bags. #noracist #kindaracist

NOW we have the REAL reason! Where is Sam Elliott, THAT will get sales back on track!
#Oscarrobbery2019 #Whycanteveryoneinmedialooklikeme?

[1964-M20E]

8 hours ago, toto said:

So..... Since we all have a vested interest in the future of Mooney, what can/should we do as a community to help ensure the best possible outcome for the company?

This is one answer.  Half of everyone here who owns a Mooney or wants a Mooney go order a new Ultra.  This would be the best thing for Mooney.  However, after 10 years of production (SWAG) to satisfy all the orders then what?  It would be a good run that would put a couple of thousand new air-frames in the system.

[Marauder]

So..... Since we all have a vested interest in the future of Mooney, what can/should we do as a community to help ensure the best possible outcome for the company?

Here’s an unpopular answer. Buy your replacement Mooney parts directly from Mooney and pay their asking price. A good example was that guy looking for a replacement glareshield. Mooney wanted $3k plus weeks of waiting. Companies that don’t have a revenue stream from new products need to get it elsewhere. Supporting their old products at a higher price provides an alternate revenue stream that can help. Take a look at Bendix King and Narco if you want examples of companies that tried to do this.

But being a group of Cheap Bast&ds you know that ain’t going to happen.


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[David_H]

22 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

This is one answer.  Half of everyone here who owns a Mooney or wants a Mooney go order a new Ultra.  This would be the best thing for Mooney.  However, after 10 years of production (SWAG) to satisfy all the orders then what?  It would be a good run that would put a couple of thousand new air-frames in the system.

Unfortunately someone would then say:

Demand is up... so the price should increase.

[Cyril Gibb]

TThe Mooney ads and website targets pilots, or pilot wannabees.  Cirrus ads and website are pure lifestyle oriented.  If we look at the segment of the population that has the $$ to buy an aircraft, most are interested in an enhanced lifestyle, not in being a pilot.  For them becoming a pilot is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

The Cirrus website parallels most car websites, with emphasis on non-technical aspects.  The Mooney website focuses on technology and performance.  If my circle of friends is any indication, they'd be far more concerned about colour palette selection than outright performance.  They consider me to be a bit of an odd duck, with my interest in technology.  They want simplicity, safety, esthetics (probably not in that order).  Money doesn't matter much.  Cirrus gives them that.  They have a "go pedal" and a "stop pedal" in their cars.  I wouldn't even know how to begin explaining throttle, prop, mixture...

 

[Jim Peace]

18 hours ago, AlexLev said:

I mean just go to the Cirrus web site: https://cirrusaircraft.com and then go to https://www.mooney.com and see, just by looking at the web site - which plane you may want to buy.

Cirrus has very superior marketing. The Mooney site has a picture of some old guy with a mustache...

Even being a Mooney owner I have not been on their site in such a long time. There has never been anything exciting on there.  I was just looking at the models offered and through some other research just realized the trainer has been canceled.  If a current Mooney owner does not want to be engaged with the company then how are they going to get non Mooney owners?

Things need to be shaken up over there in Texas......

[mike_elliott]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:28 PM, M20Doc said:

I wonder if the state of things in Cuba has anything to do with an almost 60 year old embargo?

Clarence

From the US, perhaps, but What about getting things from say, Canada, or does Canada also embargo things from going there? Plenty of Puegots on the streets as well as a lot of Russian cars. Most of the old chivvies are bonded up hulks with 40 year old shocks and diesel engines. Very few are restored masterpieces, but the drivers (note, not owners) are very proud of them anyway. As a person who just returned from Havana Saturday, there is a huge resentment of America there, not by the citizens, but by the regime. They think the 1960's Cuban missile crisis was a war against the US and had little to do with Russian missiles pointed at North America and Canada. They blame the CIA for all their troubles, but yet there has been little if any progress since the "revolution" where they took money and power from one group and gave it to another. For heavens sake, the US is not why they dont have toilet seats, or toilet paper in public restrooms. They can get their toilet paper elsewhere surely. Sorry to stray off topic, see @rocketman facebook blog on the whole ordeal for more info.

[gsxrpilot]

14 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

 Edit... sorry veered off topic... deleted 

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've also been there recently and couldn't disagree with you more.

Dont get me wrong, Paul, the people were fine, just as nice as the people here, the food excellent. But we (America) are not the root of their troubles. I watched a Southwest flight going to cuba with approximately 90% Cubans on it unload dozens of 60" LED TV's, tires and aftermarket Chevvy parts as luggage. The place was safe, safer than most every other place I have been in the Carribean, but they still have security gates on all the doors, bars on all the windows and police everywhere. There must be a reason. Unemployment fairly non existent but they dont employ, they assign. Lots of duties available to pick up the ferrell dog duty, man the toilets to clean, hand out a piece of toilet paper and collect CUC's from patrons. If you went into the Museum of the revolution, you would get what I say about the Regime and its' attitudes towards the US. Completely the CIA's fault from recent viruses to seeding clouds to keep rainfall away and sugar cane fires. Really? Reading the free english paper was a dose of propaganda our democrat and republican parties model their tactics around. Our AirBnB was right above a medical office and we saw the quality of the free healthcare. Why so many beautiful buildings are in such a state of disrepair as are their roads is beyond me if this is such a viable economic system, why they need 2 economic systems to sustain, and why 90% of all crops (tobacco) goes to the gubberment while 10% can be sold only on the farm by the farmer, who rents the land now from the gubberment etc. Somewhere in there in probably lies the answer as to why there are far more Cuban ex pats here than there are flag waiving socialist/communist American ex pats there. Their citizenry cannot afford to visit here as a whole, Southwest goes there and back for about 300 US (of CUC's) and that includes your temp. health insurance "policy", but not your 75 USD/CUC Cuban Visa.But again I apologize and would love to take it off line and talk personally with you about it soon Paul, as you know i value your thoughts highly and respect your experiences there.

 

[Danb]

how easily we get off topic and into a political diatribe is beyond me, this is  a Mooney forum, I thought, I know there is an ignore button, many of us are about to ignore the complete forum...totally disgusting

[mike_elliott]

I apologize, Dan, I just couldn't let my dear friend Clarence's shot at the US go unanswered. To bring it back to Mooney's future, From what I have observed, I do not believe Mooney has a market place (nor does Cirrus or any GA manufacture) in Cuba.

[Danb]

wasn't referring to your post Mike

[mike_elliott]

Just now, Danb said:

wasn't referring to your post Mike

but I was guilty of Off topic for sure and owe the community an apology 

[Danb]

Mike your the best...

[zaitcev]

I absolutely would be flying a Cirrus if I had the money, just because of the chute. Flying alone I would not mind so much, I'd rather have the speed. But I do carry passengers once in a while. I remember going with my wife to Denver once and we were crossing Raton pass. There was no place to land whatsoever. I think I was looking at CHT and oil temps more than I was looking for traffic haha.

People keep blaming Cirrus' marketing, but it's the product that matters. Cessna had snazzy marketing for TTx too, you know.

It's not like marketing to non-pilots does not matter. It does... Look at Icon A5. That thing was absolutely carried by marketing. But the marketing does not account for the whole picture.

Edited February 26, 2019 by zaitcev

[peevee]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Clarence routinely takes pot shots at the U.S.  I don't know why as I have never seen any Canada bashing whatsoever on this site.  Oddly, since this is MooneySpace, he also likes to take little jabs at Mooney in favor of competing brands.  Go figure.  

people are allowed to have opinions you know. even if they don't match yours.

[glbtrottr]

We used to enjoy debate in our culture. Now, people seem offended, insulted, triggered and disgusted with tremendous ease.

As we discuss the future of our choice of airplane, here are some interesting numbers I was quoted: over $6,000 to replace a stolen pitot tube. $13,000 to replace an oxygen regulator, factory parts.

Sure, I was disgusted. Perhaps even triggered. Knowing the part numbers and original manufacturers helped.

When I have to pay with my hard earned dollars for that pitot and regulator, having people demand free things offends me. When I see companies demand and obtain government subsidies at my expense for products I receive no benefit from, pitot tubes and regulators become a bit more expensive.

I could deem everything and anything political and offensive.





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