Pre-201 Value Guide is ready

[ArtVandelay]

I don't think so. Send me an email and I will include it in the addendum. Short answer is that so few understand what it is that there will not be a great 'Oohhh;' factor that will lead to extra value. There are a handful of upgrades that are the same. Add some marketing pizzaz but they don't bump the marketable value of the plane.

I guess LED lights are in this same category?


Tom

[jgarrison]

19 minutes ago, orionflt said:

I have seen appraisals that haves been all over the place, makes me wonder what standards they are actually using. Looking thru your guide you seemed to have nailed the values for the Pre 201 Mooney's.  

BINGO!!! My point from the start. The are not using a market based approach to arrive at value. Because they don't have market data with which to use. There were a few a while back that questioned my knowledge of values in the market and basically said that my sample size was too small to be meaningful. I'm no perfect. No, not by any stretch of the imagination. But when my ass is on the line to figure out what a plane will sell for (either by advise to a seller on brokerage or by what I am willing to invest in a plane to make a return), you can be sure that I have done my research on the value. And the process I use is laid out in the guide. The whole Aircraft Guide and Aircraft Appraisal business is all over the place with respect to values. And the sad part is that many thousand dollar decisions are being made based on inaccurate and sometimes just ridiculously wrong info. 

[jgarrison]

29 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I guess LED lights are in this same category?


Tom

Its in the guide. There is some value I assign to LEDs

[mike_elliott]

13 hours ago, jetdriven said:

J. Michael Lea. Lone star jet.  FWIW I think his valuation is fantasy. His website says he uses NAAA values, however they are out of business. So I think he just plugs numbers into Vref,  but you can do for free.  Appraisal just has 90,000 with radios and 60,000 without. Where are you going to find a 100 our factory engine J model with new paint for 60,000?  

http://www.mikelea.com/appraisals.htm

This begs the question, Byron. Why did you have it appraised? 

[Marauder]

Its in the guide. There is some value I assign to LEDs

 

Jimmy - I know it’s is difficult to capture everything that can be added to a Mooney. There are several avionics that you may want to add. Like the GNC 255 and GTR 225 series of Garmin radios. A number of us have added those to replace aging standard Nav Coms.

 

As well, I know like my plane, people have added the L-3 ESI-500 to back up Aspens and the G500s.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

Jimmy - just want to add that I think you are doing a great service to those of us who have invested in our planes. None of us expect to get back out what we put in, but when I hear things like, “it’s an F, it is not worth more than $50k”, it makes me foam at the mouth. Is this a panel of a $50k Mooney?



You can’t buy a new F and if you could, do you think you could buy it for $50k with new paint, new interior and modern avionics? And a newer Mooney doesn’t mean it should cost more. There is a 90 J that frequents my airport. The owner obviously flies it regularly. The original paint is weathered, glass is scratched and the avionics, with the exception of the GNC 430, are all 1990 original.

It’s a combination of condition & equipment, not the year that should be the cornerstone of value.


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[jgarrison]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

It’s a combination of condition & equipment, not the year that should be the cornerstone of value.


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I certainly agree. Other than fighting Bluebook, Vref, Lenders, pre-programmed buyers, mechanics and about 60 years of history in aircraft valuation that take year/model into account as the first line of setting values, you are 100% right. And the result is that you fight a losing battle when trying to get real value out of a plane that is so far from the average like yours is. I would be proud to own a plane like yours. And as a buyer and given a fixed budget, I would certainly weigh your plane against much later, lesser equipped models. However, if I am not a cash buyer, I may have to toss your plane out of the mix due to not being able to finance it. You may remember that was the trigger to my madness of starting this project.

[jetdriven]

9 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

This begs the question, Byron. Why did you have it appraised? 

 To buy our 33% partner out, fairly. 

[mike_elliott]

8 hours ago, jetdriven said:

 To buy our 33% partner out, fairly. 

"fair" enough. I have heard of a method that works well given the right conditions, is one partner comes up with the number and the other can either buy or sell at it.

[thinwing]

On 1/20/2019 at 7:15 PM, jetdriven said:

J. Michael Lea. Lone star jet.  FWIW I think his valuation is fantasy. His website says he uses NAAA values, however they are out of business. So I think he just plugs numbers into Vref,  but you can do for free.  Appraisal just has 90,000 with radios and 60,000 without. Where are you going to find a 100 our factory engine J model with new paint for 60,000?  

http://www.mikelea.com/appraisals.htm

Apparently he thinks from yoU

[thinwing]

20 hours ago, jetdriven said:

 To buy our 33% partner out, fairly. 

You are to be commended

[J0nathan225]

Shot you an email, but to double tap:

Jon Davis

N5612Q

j0nathan225@hotmail.com

Might sell one day.

[Sam Harris]

Hi Jimmy, I’m looking at buying an A model this week (1960) and some price guidance would help. So I’d be very interested in seeing your guide. Thank you very much.

Sam

[carusoam]

26 minutes ago, Sam Harris said:

Hi Jimmy, I’m looking at buying an A model this week (1960) and some price guidance would help. So I’d be very interested in seeing your guide. Thank you very much.

Sam

let’s invite @jgarrisonto stop by…

That would be really interesting if Jimmy’s guidance goes back that far…

Much of the accurate pricing guidance comes from actual market data…

Nobody has more accurate data than JimmyG…

But, M20A market data may be pretty hard to come by… based on the small market size…

Only one way to find out… ask.

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

i notice he started doing this a couple years ago...I wonder if he has had a chance to upgrade his list for 2021?

[Jcmtl]

1 hour ago, thinwing said:

i notice he started doing this a couple years ago...I wonder if he has had a chance to upgrade his list for 2021?

I'd like to see an updated guide as well.

[RoundTwo]

15 hours ago, thinwing said:

i notice he started doing this a couple years ago...I wonder if he has had a chance to upgrade his list for 2021?

I spoke to Jimmy this week on this very topic. He did not do the valuation for J and beyond.

[M20F-1968]

Jimmy,

I would like to add support to Marauder's comments and some data from my plane that is off the charts.

I have a 1968 F which is completely rebuilt from an empty shell.  It is a unique plane.  It came into being when I purchased it after it sat for 26 years in a hangar in Dallas.  After its rebuild, it has been appraised by a certified appraiser on Long Island, NY at $250,000.00 and is presently insured for that much.  

When I started the project I was two years out of residency (I am an M.D.), was working too much, and could not afford the distraction and time needed to travel and be an informed bidder in the market.  When I found this plane on e-bay, I sent Russell Stallings to take it apart more than it already was and report if it was a good project plane.   He supported my idea to rebuild it.  The end result is an airplane that looks and acts like a new Mooney.  It has long legs (90 gallons), is turbo normalized, the structural cage has been modified to accept an Ovation style panel (with an instrument bow), most if not all 201 upgrades and many parts installed via DER approval from a 1998 Ovation.   It has won a Lindy Award (best of show in class) at Oshkosh 2019, Outstanding Mooney at Oshkosh in 2018, and Best F model at the 2017 MAPA meeting.  

I would obviously like to see the envelope expanded to recognize the work, money and effort that those of us have made to keep these efficient vintage birds flying.  I was able to find insurers that recognized that a completely rebuilt airplane is one of a kind and its value is not dictated by Book Value.  It is this notion that has given rise to Mooney modifications over the past 30 years.  Now that the factory is no longer building new planes, restoration of the existing fleet makes sense, especially if it can be done competently and within an expected predictable budget.  There has been a lot of conversation over the near 20 years that I have been around the Mooney community that some want to 201 to return.  That is what I have done and others can do as well as there are more owners experienced in the process.  The vintage planes are great traveling machines after new equipment and updates are applied.  They are also great retirement planes as maintenance in controllable.  

My thanks to Jimmy for his work considering the value offered by these birds.

John Breda

 

[M20F-1968]

My post was listed without the information requested by Jimmy.

It is:

Name:  John Breda

Email address:  john.breda@gmail.com

Phone contact:  (617) 877-0025

If Owner, The tail number>  N954N

 

[M20F-1968]

My post was listed without the information requested by Jimmy.

It is:

Name:  John Breda

Email address:  john.breda@gmail.com

Phone contact:  (617) 877-0025

If Owner, The tail number:  N954N

 

[M20F-1968]

My post was listed without the information requested by Jimmy.

It is:

Name:  John Breda

Email address:  john.breda@gmail.com

Phone contact:  (617) 877-0025

If Owner, The tail number:  N954N

 

[M20F-1968]

Jimmy:

I would like a copy of your Vintage Evaluation.  You can send it to my e-mail (john.breda@gmail.com) if possible.

John Breda

[RPSwat]

Hey Jimmy,

I would like a copy of your report.

Name:  Rick Swatloski 

Email address:  RPSwatloski@gmail.com

Phone contact:  (205) 886-3411

N7043V

I just purchased, and would like too see how the numbers compare.  Thanks,

Rick

[Hank]

@Rpswat, welcome, neighbor! What part of our great state do you inhabit?

Also, a word of advice--replace a couple or three numbers in your phone with words, to make life more difficult for the spammers.

[Jim Peace]

I would like a copy as well:

JimApice@gmail.com